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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

You're white you cannot experience racism 3

1000 replies

PatricksRum · 06/06/2020 12:28

And it continues. Thank you for those black people who took the time to share their stories once again.

@Whataloadofshite @BeforeIPutOnMyMakeup @CandyLeBonBon @WokeUpSmeltTheCoffee
Thank you all.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
shreddednips · 06/06/2020 13:03

Someone asked way back in previous thread whether anyone has learned from this conversation or had their mind changed. I have actually. I'm white, and one of my family members experienced an incident at work where they were called 'white trash' etc by a group of colleagues. At the time, I would have described that as racism, because I was viewing the issue through the lens of racism being purely a discriminatory act because of someone's skin colour. This is how the definition of racism was explained to me by my (white) parents and teachers at school. All my education on racism came from white people, and it hadn't occurred to me to educate myself further.

From reading the experiences from OP and PP on this thread, I can now clearly see why this experience isn't comparable and why it is so wrong for white people to bring up these types of experiences in response to BLM. For my relative, this was a one-off experience. Nothing like this had happened to her before or since, and while it was unpleasant, it was isolated. I'm not saying it was ok, but she walked away from it I'm reasonably sure knowledge that she would never experience anything like this again in her life. I can't imagine how it would feel to experience discrimination your whole life, and from institutions who on the face of it (like the police) are supposed to protect you and your rights. The fact that this incident was hugely notable for our family is a sign of our privilege.

I think a lot of people (like myself before) have a definition of racism that doesn't take into account power and privilege. I don't think a definition like that is fit for purpose. Otherwise, it puts racism as experienced by black people and a one-off incident like happened to my relative under the same umbrella. That can't be right, the two simply don't compare.

This discussion has got me thinking about how I've never stopped and noticed my privilege as a white person before. For example, I have a young son. When he gets older, I will have all the usual worries about whether he is safe, whether bad things will happen to him when I can't protect him. If I wasn't white, I would have these worries PLUS the fear that he could be abused, attacked or discriminated against because of the colour of his skin. Now I understand this, I notice examples of my privilege all the time. I don't think this is about flagellating myself for being white, but I think it's about waking up to reality and acknowledging that I must be a part of standing up against racism.

I do feel uncomfortable, because I have been ignorant and I didn't have to be. I think that discomfort is a good thing. Discomfort brings about change. I'm sure that I have a long way to go understanding this, and I will never truly understand, but I will keep listening and trying. It's certainly not OP's or anyone else's job to educate me. The information is out there and easy to find, I just wasn't looking. That's my responsibility.

So thanks, OP, for this thread. I'm listening.

PatricksRum · 06/06/2020 13:03

I'd like to know what age we should start teaching our kids about racism? Anyone got any advice on this please?
My dc is 1. I have already started.
Constant touching of her hair made me begin.
At that age a small thing such as a book with black children included is a place to start.
At age 5 it would be more advanced. I don't have advice on that age but in response to your first question as soon as they're born

OP posts:
PatricksRum · 06/06/2020 13:04

OP if that's too much of a derail please just say and I can start a new post. Thanks

No of course not! Please don't feel this way.
This is exactly what this is about.
Thank you for your question and willingness to learn and listen to us

OP posts:
AmericanAdventure · 06/06/2020 13:07

@janeskettle agree.

janeskettle · 06/06/2020 13:07

Ffs, don't just sit there all dewy eyed and listening. Go out and DO something.

These threads drive me nuts. I have brown kids. If they'd sat around while I worked my way through my 'white privilege' reading list, they'd have been waiting a long time for me to get on with doing anything about the fact they are disadvantaged by virtue of their race.

You do not have to adopt critical race theory (power/privilege/blah) to perform actions designed to support people of colour or indigenous people or Asian people or Middle Eastern people.

Flaxmeadow · 06/06/2020 13:09

Point to me where I specifically asked white people about their experiences of racial prejudice

This is title of your thread
"AIBU - You're White You Cannot Experience Racism "

You are addressing white people. You have posted in AIBU. You are asking white people a question and inviting them to answer you

PatricksRum · 06/06/2020 13:10

Why have you started this thread, Patricks?
^This won't work. Try this, Patricks.
Your posts aren't helping anyone, Patricks.
^
Someone asked way back in previous thread whether anyone has learned from this conversation or had their mind changed. I have actually. I'm white

!!!!

OP posts:
PatricksRum · 06/06/2020 13:11

Again

Point to me where I specifically asked white people about their experiences of racial prejudice

@Flaxmeadow

OP posts:
Hercwasonaroll · 06/06/2020 13:15

Of course white people can be victims of an individual racist incident.

However white people don't experience structural racism in this country.

Dreep · 06/06/2020 13:17

@janeskettle

Amen to that.

PatricksRum · 06/06/2020 13:18

@Hercwasonaroll repost

metro.co.uk/2020/03/09/can-white-people-experience-racism-12340542/

OP posts:
callmeadoctor · 06/06/2020 13:19

@PatricksRum

Isn't the title of this thread racist?

Nope. You aren't oppressed.

Eh? Anyway no matter, I reported this thread because of the title. However Mumsnet agree with you, you will be pleased to know. I do believe that this thread is goady though and I really hope that mumsnetters ignore it..............................................
YankeeinKingArthursCourt · 06/06/2020 13:19

Again, it's been covered on here before, but : racism is about prejudice based on white power structures / privilege. Therefore POC can not be "racist", but can be "prejudiced" against other races. And as a white person you can experience prejudice, but not "racism".

The idea about racism including "power structure" isn't actually a "new" definition. This has been part of the conversation on race for at least 20 years and "White Privilege" terminology for at least 30 years. So it may be "new" to you ( if you're just starting to look at these issues), but not new in the history of the conversations about racism.

CoachBombay · 06/06/2020 13:22

I can't believe these threads are still going 🤷🏽‍♀️

It's just people dropping in to say "I hear you OP" and then her thanking them.

Anyone who wants a critical thinking discussion is told to "just listen" "read the links/books/ watch Netflix "

Anyone who disagrees with OP and tries to give examples might as well just hear a claxon that goes "wroooooooong" 😂

On thread two I attempted to engage, but got turned on in the end saying how dare I have the "audacity" to say OP hadn't attempted to teach someone, and we agreed to disagree.....but thread 3 on this 🤦🏽‍♀️ really?!

Dreep · 06/06/2020 13:23

I did the same doctor - because I don’t believe that division and exclusion is the way to progress.

I may be here some time as I’m still waiting on a question to be answered.

LoseLooseLucy · 06/06/2020 13:23

You are white. You can not experience racism.

Like it or not OP, that title reads like it is addressing white posters.This is a chat forum. Literally, "Am I Being Unreasonable? You're white, you cannot experience racism".

Naturally, white posters will come on to challenge or agree with that assertion.

janeskettle · 06/06/2020 13:25

Critical race theory is not the only lens through which to approach racism.

I still believe that white women do better getting off their butts and doing something - anything! - for black organisations, justice focused or otherwise - than sitting at home giving themselves a crash course in one academic approach to race.

So much energy going into these threads, and so little to show for it.

FudgeBrownie2019 · 06/06/2020 13:26

I'd like to know what age we should start teaching our kids about racism? Anyone got any advice on this please?

I think if I had my time again I'd go from day one. Not in a militant way, more in a "this happens, lets acknowledge and try to ensure we don't perpetuate it" way.

We have 14 and 9 year old DC. The happenings over the last few weeks have opened my eyes - I wouldn't have described any of us as racist but it hit me that we haven't always taught the DC about bias, and privilege and all the things that gave us - and them - advantages. So we've read up, learned and talked together. It doesn't stop any of what's going on, but learning the way we have has felt like we're doing a very tiny something to contribute at a time when white people can't and shouldn't make it about them.

Hercwasonaroll · 06/06/2020 13:27

Right so a POC saying something offensive towards a white person that makes it clear it is about the race difference is not racism? It is racism and would be treated by the police as such.

PatricksRum · 06/06/2020 13:29

Anyway no matter, I reported this thread because of the title. However Mumsnet agree with you, you will be pleased to know. I do believe that this thread is goady though and I really hope that mumsnetters ignore it..............................................

Did you miss the number 3?
Mumsnet aren't shutting me down because of my colour and I'm so grateful.

OP posts:
PanicOnTheStreets85 · 06/06/2020 13:30

I expect this point has been made on the other threads, but I think attempts to change the definition of racism to include a power element are doomed to fail.
I disagree. Short of making up a new word, it's the only way to explain in a quick fashion.
Racism isn't a word to be defined by a few sentences. It's historic. It's systematic. It's oppression. It's slavery.

I honestly think it does need a new word/phrase. "Systemic racism" works well IMO. It's the power systems that are the real problem.

You're fighting an uphill battle anyway trying to get the majority of white people to recognise that A) black people still face a significant amount of racism in the UK and B) it is so much worse than any limited racial discrimination that white people might possibly face. If you try to couple that with something saying "If you ever do face discrimination because you are white, you can't call it racism" that's a complete no-hoper. White people want to retain the ability to say that they are victims of racism.

Also, white people who barely even want to acknowledge that racism still exists are going to think it's terribly convenient for black people if the term "racism" suddenly can never be applied to anything a black person does, and they are going to say that it's not fair and an attempt by black people to have one rule for them and one rule for white people.

Alternatively, rather than trying to redefine the discrimination, it might be that the cause needs a different name, in the same way that feminism specifically focuses on women's liberation rather than "anti-sexism" which you know a certain portion of men would try to get to centre on whatever limited forms of sexism men face.

But either way, it seems blindingly obvious to me that people aren't just going to accept these attempts to redefine the word. Maybe they should, but they definitely won't.

MarshaBradyo · 06/06/2020 13:31

Tg mn agree its not a racist thread title and moreover it’s correct.

callmeadoctor · 06/06/2020 13:37

To mn I think it is a racist thread title.......

montyliesandmontycries · 06/06/2020 13:44

‘I'd like to know what age we should start teaching our kids about racism‘

My DS was about 6 when we talked about it, a kid in school had used the n word at another kid and it was discussed with all the children.
His BF is mixed heritage so I used their relationship to try and explain that racists would think he was better than her, smarter than her because he was white etc. That some people would t like them being friends.
He was so confused, and kept saying it made no sense etc. I felt like I was exposing him to the evils of the world.
As he’s got older (9) the discussions have been more in-depth and he’s aware of the protests her and I. The USA, knows what they’re about and about the police brutality.

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