You're white you cannot experience racism 3

[PatricksRum]

And it continues. Thank you for those black people who took the time to share their stories once again.

@Whataloadofshite @BeforeIPutOnMyMakeup @CandyLeBonBon @WokeUpSmeltTheCoffee
Thank you all.

@shreddednips Just rereading your post. It's amazing. Thank you for taking the time to share that. I hope another white person will read it and have a light bulb moment.

To mn, I don't think the title is racist, but it's quite goady to keep this going over three threads, and struggle sessions are not quite the remit of Mumsnet, surely?

Some white people do experience racial prejudice ie travellers, but in the main, white people do not experience racism, and certainly do not experience systemic racism in the way people of colour do.

It's not complicated, and it doesn't need three threads to prosecute.

Mumsnet aren't shutting me down because of my colour and I'm so grateful

But you tried to shut me down. Was it because of my colour or that question you won’t address?

You keep coming back and stick your two pence worth in trying to detail.
I think I know why too.

Please tell me why you think I’m trying to spoil the thread.

I agree with BLM. I just don’t agree with the tone of the thread and the exclusion and division.

You said you weren’t looking for ‘white answers’ but I am. Which is why I clicked on this thread in the first place.

I can't believe these threads are still going 🤷🏽‍♀️*

It's just people dropping in to say "I hear you OP" and then her thanking them.

Anyone who wants a critical thinking discussion is told to "just listen" "read the links/books/ watch Netflix "

Anyone who disagrees with OP and tries to give examples might as well just hear a claxon that goes "wroooooooong" 😂

On thread two I attempted to engage, but got turned on in the end saying how dare I have the "audacity" to say OP hadn't attempted to teach someone, and we agreed to disagree.....but thread 3 on this 🤦🏽‍♀️ really?!*

If any of that were true there wouldn't be 3 threads.
If that's all you've got from the threads then I feel sorry for you.
Collectively, we've shared so many experiences of racism and oppression and that's your response? My sympathies.

If the threads get replies they’ll keep going. If not they won’t like any other topic.

Mn doesn’t have to step in because some posters don’t want a third thread.

Like it or not OP, that title reads like it is addressing white posters.This is a chat forum. Literally, "Am I Being Unreasonable? You're white, you cannot experience racism".
If you read the original post, it was a quote from what I was saying. I was asking if I was being unreasonable to keep repeating it to them or should I let them sit in ignorance?*

Naturally, white posters will come on to challenge or agree with that assertion.*
That's proving my point.
White people collectively are responsible for the oppression and racism we've suffered for hundreds of years.
When one is explaining that to you, if your response is anything but listening or standing with the movement then you are part of the problem.

Admitting your have racial prejudice, as a white person, is BLOODY hard.

"I have close friends who are black" is a usual explanation as to how someone can't be racist. But refusing to accept that there is a problem in this country is part of that prejudice. Walls that white people have built up to save themselves feeling bad.

In any city, ask a black man how many times he has been stopped by the police. Now ask a white man of similar background.

All lives matter?
Yes, fuck, all lives DO matter. And no one is denying that. But for so long, black lives have mattered less. So, right now, we can focus in Black Lives Matter. Lets fix this. It is to all of us to fix this. Once it's fixed, once the fire is out, we can start focussing on all of us.

You're fighting an uphill battle anyway trying to get the majority of white people to recognise that A) black people still face a significant amount of racism in the UK and B) it is so much worse than any limited racial discrimination that white people might possibly face. If you try to couple that with something saying "If you ever do face discrimination because you are white, you can't call it racism" that's a complete no-hoper. White people want to retain the ability to say that they are victims of racism.

This is very true.
But asking someone to water down their experiences or feelings in order for white people to listen is wrong and I won't do it.

@callmeadoctor this is the third thread with this title so clearly MN don't agree with you.

And the good thing about the thread title - it is educating you.

Feel free to report it to the police.
I'd welcome a visit.
I'm not quite sure what you're getting at here, why would you get a visit unless you make derogatory remarks about white people?

I'm white, I know I'm privelidged, I know systemic and structural racism exists, I know person to person racism exists, I try to educate myself, I try to educate my children, I try to remove subconscious bias when teaching, I try my best.

OP, how do you manage to sleep, cook, eat etc?

You've been posting around the clock since the early hours of Thursday. You're going to make yourself ill

I know I'm an MN addict but this is quite something else.

*To mn, I don't think the title is racist, but it's quite goady to keep this going over three threads, and struggle sessions are not quite the remit of Mumsnet, surely?

Some white people do experience racial prejudice ie travellers, but in the main, white people do not experience racism, and certainly do not experience systemic racism in the way people of colour do. *
No they don't. This is what you're not understanding.
A traveller could alter their attire and they wouldn't face prejudice. (I'm not saying they should have to)
A traveller could walk into a restaurant without being turned away because of their skin colour.
A traveller can talk without being respinded to with whataboutery.
I can't do any of those.
I could wear western clothes instead of African attire but my skin will still be black.
I can walk into a restaurant and sound posh but my skin will still be black.
I can talk but my skin will still be black and people won't listen because of that reason alone.
There is nothing we can alter about ourselves that will stop people only seeing the colour of our skin.

It's not complicated, and it doesn't need three threads to prosecute.
It isn't but clearly it does.

The fact you can't alter your skin colour isn't racist. That's just biology

*Admitting your have racial prejudice, as a white person, is BLOODY hard.
*I can appreciate that. As you said, it's uncomfortable but it should be.
I, too, had to overcome that when I learnt to admit that I have it easier than those with even darker skin than me.
*
"I have close friends who are black" is a usual explanation as to how someone can't be racist. But refusing to accept that there is a problem in this country is part of that prejudice. Walls that white people have built up to save themselves feeling bad.
*How many times have I heard that expression. It's so true.
I love this analogy.
White people built walls around us and are now complaining when we tell them they're on the other side of the wall.

*In any city, ask a black man how many times he has been stopped by the police. Now ask a white man of similar background.

All lives matter?
Yes, fuck, all lives DO matter. And no one is denying that. But for so long, black lives have mattered less. So, right now, we can focus in Black Lives Matter. Lets fix this. It is to all of us to fix this. Once it's fixed, once the fire is out, we can start focussing on all of us.*
Too right. BLACK LIVES MATTER RIGHT NOW

*I'm not quite sure what you're getting at here, why would you get a visit unless you make derogatory remarks about white people?

I'm white, I know I'm privelidged, I know systemic and structural racism exists, I know person to person racism exists, I try to educate myself, I try to educate my children, I try to remove subconscious bias when teaching, I try my best.*
Pp said my title and thread is racist and the police would treat it as so even if MN won't.

The idea about racism including "power structure" isn't actually a "new" definition. This has been part of the conversation on race for at least 20 years and "White Privilege" terminology for at least 30 years. So it may be "new" to you ( if you're just starting to look at these issues), but not new in the history of the conversations about racism.

Given that the term "racism"/its predecessor "racialism" has been around since around 1900 it is comparatively new, and an attempt to redefine a word that is already in common parlance and well-understood.

I just don't think it's a good tactic, given that (like it or not) ultimately the cause cannot succeed without a fair number of white people buying into it 🤷‍♀️

*OP, how do you manage to sleep, cook, eat etc?

You've been posting around the clock since the early hours of Thursday. You're going to make yourself ill

I know I'm an MN addict but this is quite something else.*
I know I know I know
I have a chronic illness which is made worse by the heat. I'm currently laid in bed shivering with the fan on whilst trying not to vomit.
It's partly my sleeping pattern and partly my enthusiasm. I'm somehow managing to entertain my toddler whilst fighting. No idea honestly. I do need to rest

The fact you can't alter your skin colour isn't racist. That's just biology
Correct.
The fact that I am treated differently for something I can't change isn't biology. That's just racism.

I just don't think it's a good tactic, given that (like it or not) ultimately the cause cannot succeed without a fair number of white people buying into it
Which tactic do you suggest?
I guarantee myself and my black relations have exhausted that tactic too.

In that case I'd honestly stop, especially if you have a toddler to look after.

You might feel better when you get some proper rest

I am glad this thread is continuing. I’m white so not directly relevant to me although I have a mixed race child.

One positive thing I would hope would emerge from BLM and the response to the George Floyd protests is a greater awareness of the fact that it’s institutional racism which is the real problem.

Yes of course there are instances where white people have been discriminated against because of their colour. But white people (at least in this country), do not suffer the effects of a system which is stacked against their success at every turn. If you suffer black on white racism it is no doubt unpleasant but an anomaly. Not something you have to suffer day to day and not something which radically skews the playing field against you.

Patrick’s Rum I think you have done a valuable thing and would respectfully disagree that this thread is not concerned with the experience of white people. I know we are not the target audience but I think it’s actually instructive for white people.

@callmeadoctor

Isn't the title of this thread racist?

Yes, or at least it used to be. But on the previous threads we were told that the meaning of the word rasism has been changed.

I've seen so many of these type of threads go down over the years, and i think one danger of the struggle session approach is that you actually and inadventently harden your opposition.

It's the reason I've ditched 'white privilege' as a term. Not because, in some senses, it doesn't exist, but because it isn't effective in communicating to people who aren't already in the choir.

I find it better to ignore the word 'privilege' altogether, and agree, say, that the life of a young white man struggling with schizophrenia and unemployment is bloody hard. It's just not his skin color that makes it hard. And for the young black man struggling with the same, he has an extra burden to carry.

I think it's particularly icky for middle and upper class women to scream about white privilege to working class and poor people. They will look at you like you have two heads. Their lives are hard too. Really hard. Again, it's not that they possess some invisible privilege that makes their lives all sparkles and sunshine. Hard lives are hard lives. It's just that race isn't one of the hard things for them, and for poor or working class black families, it is.

Thank you @WorraLiberty
As soon as dc falls asleep I'll be right with her! 🤗