You're white you cannot experience racism 3

[PatricksRum]

And it continues. Thank you for those black people who took the time to share their stories once again.

@Whataloadofshite @BeforeIPutOnMyMakeup @CandyLeBonBon @WokeUpSmeltTheCoffee
Thank you all.

Educational Attainment in English schools:

bit.ly/3eQY9se

It's complicated.

@lemonsandlimes123 black people are those with dark brown skin.

Feel free to start a thread about Jewish people.

No. This is a thread about white people experiencing racism.

You said last night that my family had no experience of oppression because they are white, although my maternal side were Jews in Poland. I'm asking you about the Holocaust - how was that not oppression?

Because if those travellers also had black faces believe it or not they'd be worse off.

How you can read the description above of a life of discrimination and violence based on race, a child's home being deliberately set on fire, a child witnessing the attempted murder of their mother, the family being denied any protection or justice from the police, and tell the poster that "it could have been worse" is bonkers. How could it possibly have been worse?

I'm a supporter of Black Lives Matter. Telling deeply traumatised people that their trauma could've been worse doesn't help black lives in any way. It helps no-one.

*Feel free to start a thread about Jewish people.

No. This is a thread about white people experiencing racism.

You said last night that my family had no experience of oppression because they are white, although my maternal side were Jews in Poland. I'm asking you about the Holocaust - how was that not oppression?*

It really isn't.
When you start a thread about Jewish oppression I'll engage there.

I am no longer engaging in any posts with you. I said this towards the end of the last thread. Your intentions aren't genuine and your name is all over the threads without one post about black lives exclusively.

@AmericanAdventure

Because if those travellers also had black faces believe it or not they'd be worse off.

How you can read the description above of a life of discrimination and violence based on race, a child's home being deliberately set on fire, a child witnessing the attempted murder of their mother, the family being denied any protection or justice from the police, and tell the poster that "it could have been worse" is bonkers. How could it possibly have been worse?

I'm a supporter of Black Lives Matter. Telling deeply traumatised people that their trauma could've been worse doesn't help black lives in any way. It helps no-one.

Exactly.

I am sickened by her response to that post.

I used to work with a black guy who told me he absolutely despised someone (who was white), and told the HR dept that he called him the n-word when he actually never had. The poor bloke got sacked.

So there is racism all ways and its about time it stopped.

How you can read the description above of a life of discrimination and violence based on race, a child's home being deliberately set on fire, a child witnessing the attempted murder of their mother, the family being denied any protection or justice from the police, and tell the poster that "it could have been worse" is bonkers. How could it possibly have been worse?

I didn't make that comment but they would be worse off. On top of that abuse they would receive further abuse for being black.

@PatricksRum

*Feel free to start a thread about Jewish people.

No. This is a thread about white people experiencing racism.

You said last night that my family had no experience of oppression because they are white, although my maternal side were Jews in Poland. I'm asking you about the Holocaust - how was that not oppression?*

It really isn't.
When you start a thread about Jewish oppression I'll engage there.

I am no longer engaging in any posts with you. I said this towards the end of the last thread. Your intentions aren't genuine and your name is all over the threads without one post about black lives exclusively.

No you raised the fact that my family hadn't experienced oppression. You brought that up.

Why won't you answer the question about the Holocaust? Do you accept what happened during it?

5,000 Romany women and children were murdered, in one night at Auschwitz. The men were already dead. The whole of the mc, there was one, was taken out.
They were rounded up from 1933, and placed in concentration camps long before the war and the killings started.
It is estimated that more than half the Romany population were murdered.
They were considered as lower than the Jewish population and deemed "untouchable".
This is just one part of history, Henry the 8th was partial to a bit on the side with the gypsy women, many of us have a certain Henry Tudor in our bloodline. He passed a law for Gypsies to be hanged on sight.
Our history of racism started around 1,500 years ago in India/ Pakistan and continued across the migration through Persia, arriving in Eastern Europe with some continuing to the UK.
The racism still continues now, on a daily basis, for many of us.

I'm loving shopping online, I don't have to worry about not getting served in Primark, or store detectives following me round, or people pointing.
I stopped covering my head, I do this for fashion although it's cultural too, I shouldn't have to change to not feel judged all the time.

*I used to work with a black guy who told me he absolutely despised someone (who was white), and told the HR dept that he called him the n-word when he actually never had. The poor bloke got sacked.

So there is racism all ways and its about time it stopped.*

How is what he did racist?

I can't believe that someone can listen to stories of an awful nature, express no sympathy but then plough on with "it could have been worse. Now, support me".

Good luck op.

I think I understand something I didn't before about your viewpoint @PatricksRum

I've actually done some research into the definition of racism and the definition of race. Basically racism is prejudiced assumptions or actions based on race. And race is... Indefinable because it isn't really a thing. It certainly isn't defined solely by the colour of a person's skin. Apparently the origins of the word race were about people who spoke the same language, which is very different to our use of the word today. I totally agree with you that black can't be defined.

I do think a lot of what you are arguing comes down to semantics (using the same words to describe different things). Hearhoovesthinkzebras is a case in point. As far as I read it, in the last couple of pages she has been arguing that black people are systemically oppressed and that we must unpick the reasons why. I wholeheartedly support this, although I do think zebra hasn't articulated it in the most productive way at all times.

It is undoubtedly true that we have an issue on this country with black people ending up in custody at a disproportionate rate.

*I used to work with a black guy who told me he absolutely despised someone (who was white), and told the HR dept that he called him the n-word when he actually never had. The poor bloke got sacked.

So there is racism all ways and its about time it stopped.

How is what he did racist?*

That's one of the worst examples I've seen on this thread.

Devlesko

We must never let that be forgotten. I defy anyone to say that wasn't oppression based on race.

OP, I get that you don't want the thread derailed, but the fact is that it has been and a lot of feelings are running high. I think that if you showed some empathy towards people who have described horrific experiences due to oppression (whether due to race, culture, religion), then they might be prepared to stop arguing with you and derailing the thread.

It's the apparent lack of empathy they're objecting to. I don't think that's actually the case, but it's how it's coming across.

@qweryuiop

I think I understand something I didn't before about your viewpoint *@PatricksRum*

I've actually done some research into the definition of racism and the definition of race. Basically racism is prejudiced assumptions or actions based on race. And race is... Indefinable because it isn't really a thing. It certainly isn't defined solely by the colour of a person's skin. Apparently the origins of the word race were about people who spoke the same language, which is very different to our use of the word today. I totally agree with you that black can't be defined.

I do think a lot of what you are arguing comes down to semantics (using the same words to describe different things). Hearhoovesthinkzebras is a case in point. As far as I read it, in the last couple of pages she has been arguing that black people are systemically oppressed and that we must unpick the reasons why. I wholeheartedly support this, although I do think zebra hasn't articulated it in the most productive way at all times.

It is undoubtedly true that we have an issue on this country with black people ending up in custody at a disproportionate rate.

That is my point.

It's not as simple as saying "skin colour"

It's being able to work out how and why and where that affects people and how we change it.

Education is an example. So many things combine there that will affect a child's experience of education and their attainment.

That includes home life, society as well as quality of education. You might argue, reasonably, that racism affects all of those areas so how do we change it and improve it?

Woah up AmericanAdventure

I was NOT replying to that post
I did NOT say that there could be a worse experience than having your house burnt down as a child and your mother abused

I was replying to the much more benign post where Zebra was talking about worse educational achievement and employment prospects for travellers
Those prospects could indeed be worse at a societal level if they were also black

It was NOT a post denying or minimising anyone's individual experiences

Do not misquote me to make me look like I do not care about the experiences of travellers.
Or of Asian people

I think I understand something I didn't before about your viewpoint @PatricksRum*

I've actually done some research into the definition of racism and the definition of race. Basically racism is prejudiced assumptions or actions based on race. And race is... Indefinable because it isn't really a thing. It certainly isn't defined solely by the colour of a person's skin. Apparently the origins of the word race were about people who spoke the same language, which is very different to our use of the word today. I totally agree with you that black can't be defined.*
This is what I'm trying to say. Not as well put as you, though.
I can't tell someone what a black person is because there are so many variations.
An Indian with black skin isn't black but maybe perceived as so and therefore will face very similar, if not the same racism.

I do think a lot of what you are arguing comes down to semantics (using the same words to describe different things). Hearhoovesthinkzebras is a case in point. As far as I read it, in the last couple of pages she has been arguing that black people are systemically oppressed and that we must unpick the reasons why. I wholeheartedly support this, although I do think zebra hasn't articulated it in the most productive way at all times.
Respectively, if you read the previous thread you can see zebra repeatedly asking the same thing which has received tons of answers. Even @AvranaKernsBestSpider made a great post to her relating it to her illness and she refuses to listen. It says a lot about her intentions.

It is undoubtedly true that we have an issue on this country with black people ending up in custody at a disproportionate rate.
100%!!

@Devlesko That really is horrific. There shouldn't be any question that the Romany people have suffered from the most appalling racist abuse. I also didn't know any of this so I'm glad that you and other posters have shared it.

Why won't you answer the question about the Holocaust?

Can you not accept that was oppression?

Why would you not be able to accept that thousands and thousands of people were killed and tortured due to their race?

OP, I get that you don't want the thread derailed, but the fact is that it has been and a lot of feelings are running high. I think that if you showed some empathy towards people who have described horrific experiences due to oppression (whether due to race, culture, religion), then they might be prepared to stop arguing with you and derailing the thread.
The one poster doing this will never stop derailing it.
I've repeatedly responded and said xyz is wrong.
A poster recently asked my opinion on the use of white trash. I acknowledged and said I don't condone it. I'm not dismissing it entirely, but zebra has a different intention I can assure you. *

It's the apparent lack of empathy they're objecting to. I don't think that's actually the case, but it's how it's coming across.*
I've said I'm autistic so my empathy isn't always clear but I have repeatedly said xyz is wrong followed up by this isn't the focus

I didn't make that comment but they would be worse off. On top of that abuse they would receive further abuse for being black.

I know you didn't say it OP. But what you've said here simply isn't true. What you are trying to do is quantify trauma. It can't be quantified.

I remember you saying that, OP. That's why I said that I really don't think that it's actually the case that you lack empathy but it was how it was coming across.

I do think you've been given a very hard time, which has been unjust considering that you did mention the fact that you're autistic.