To think women's lives don't matter...

[DragonTrainedByLucy]

Warning I am incredibly fucked off with the World right for several reasons so apologies for the rant.

I literally am getting slammed left, right and centre for not being vocal on social media about Black Lives Matter and for not attending any of the three local protests (I am shielding, but supposedly it's OK to go because social distancing measure are in place). I'm also concerned due to the high proportionality of members from the BAME community due to COVID and the fact the R number has risen close to 1.

I supported #blackouttuesday - I got it wrong, I did the black square but I also did two posts on inspirational BAME employers in the two sectors I work in (this was supposedly the wrong bit). I got abuse.

What has really hacked me off though is that some of the people who are having a go at me for the lack of support to the #BLM movement are people who have sat next to me whilst I've been on the receiving end of really severe mysoginistic abuse and really serious abuse relating to gender identity (I have a trauma diagnosis that leads to gender identity confusion). These are not one off times, it's been multiple occasions.

Generally wondering where the support has been for women for the last three years (and all women, regardless of race, but this does also impact women from BAME communities negatively).

Have I missed it? If I have can someone please point me to the circles on where I will find where/how the female support happens because I really need it right now.

Also to all the BAME community, I am sorry for the continued shit you have to go to - I have donated (through three of the various links). I hope this ends with better outcomes for you all.

You can't have a reasonable exploration of hard issues on MN, OP.

Last month the #1 issue was Anti-Chinese racism

One kid in my school (we're back) told me she has no friends 'because they say I am coronavirus'. So sad. Anti-Asian prejudice is endemic in my country, and has been for centuries.

My (brown) kid didn't go to the rally, despite being radicalised by social justice Americans into ACAB rhetoric, because he didn't feel safe. I'm just glad he didn't go, because his father is immunocompromised.

Op I think it’s the people you follow.It was Breonna Taylor’s birthday yesterday and so many people in the BLM movement posted in support urging a conviction for her murderers.

Thank you @bookworm100

Please to everyone joining, read back.

I do understand that they shouldn't be pitted against each other, I just didn't think anything had happened for women in the past, and I am still confused about why there was no protests for Breonna Taylor (and this makes me wonder how many other BAME women we don't know about have been killed).

I do understand there's a difference between the police killing someone and a member of the public now that's been highlighted.

As I said, I do support BLM.

So violence against women (endemic, globally) is a little fire''?

Lovely.

It's not ''whataboutery'' to notice that it's all aboard this cause because it includes MEN, but it's only ever 50% aboard a cause for women.

I'm not ''whataboutterying'' on public threads, I"m not debating this in public. Mumsnet a site for mothers is the only place I am expressing this sadness.

The BLM took on momentum right now because the police publicly murdered George in front of cameras for all the world to see. It took the world reacting for those men to be charged.

We have all watched on as he begged for his life, yet nobody stepped in because to try and protect yourself or others from the American police would have got anyone shot.

This triggered a chain reaction of others posting videos of public police brutality on a horrific scale, the majority of which is towards black citizens.

The chain reaction continues with people going public with their stories of racist incidents.

The world can not afford to miss the momentum of this movement. Nobody is stopping anyone fighting for women's rights, that doesn't mean the spotlight should be taken away from the current crisis.

Yeah you're just a GF.

Yes it was a monumental fuck up by the Police but they opened fire because there were SHOT AT. Her BF created that situation by shooting a Police Officer FFS.

It's actually very plausible that had she not been a woman that was killed in that awful situation, there would have been very little reporting at all. Would've just been 'black man killed in failed drugs raid after Police opened fire after Police officer shot'.

Completely different to GF but you do know that.

www.change.org/p/andy-beshear-justice-for-breonna-taylor/psf/promote_or_share?guest=new&short_display_name=Alan&recruiter=&source_location=react-fe

No, women's lives don't matter. They matter less than white men's, more than black women's. Bit more than black men's. This is no surprise.

Early childhood education needs to change to enable girls and women. Our parenting of girls AND boys needs to change to equalise society.

So in this instance it's a case of prioritising the massive fire over the little fires and realising that there will be somebody somewhere who gets burned
I know. If only we could burn the bad men solve the problem.

I am so so sick of supposed " feminists" jumping onto every cause claiming that it is so much worse for women.

Its embarrassing and hurts feminism at its core. The desperate need to scream over everyone elses voices with an insistent whatabouttery makes me feel sick that it's this that gets heard. Not every woman who fights in their professions and daily life, not the women who have the wherewithal to shut the hell up for two seconds and let someone else grieve for their issue, for their fear , to shout for their rights. Nooo it has to be the morons who claim whataboutery and add insult to injury by trying to add a disclaimer that it's for " their " cause.

If the best you can do is whinge and whine that you are not centre stage then go the hell away. You , and I , am not relevant here. I am a middle class white woman and I know Jack shit about being discriminated for the colour of my skin so I am damn well not going to cry about being discriminated for being female right now because this is NOT ABOUT ME. I will repeat it again , this is not about me or any other white women. We should be allies , thinking ones, the opposite of that is trying to distract from the problem because we aren't centre stage.

OP you can give a fake explanation that you are referring to " not right now" but you are posting....right...now. be quiet , listen and learn. You don't get to co-opt someone elses pain for your political agenda. At best its tack and self involved ,at worst you are part of the damn problem. Please don't attempt to co-opt Breonna Taylor's death to justify your point, that's just ...well I have no words.

Actually I'm going to hide this thread now because I'm ashamed of what this represents to my belief that we have hope in society.

Would you also turn up at a Breast Cancer charity event and shout 'but what about all the other cancers'

This.

Op I think it’s the people you follow.It was Breonna Taylor’s birthday yesterday and so many people in the BLM movement posted in support urging a conviction for her murderers.

Also this - my social media featured loads of posts for Breanna's birthday demanding justice. The two movements aren't mutually exclusive and nobody is saying one is more important than the other.

Did you personally take action organising things like marches and protests, or attending them during the #metoo?

I do think it's easy to say "what about xyz" if you didn't actively organise something yourself. You may have, i would be interested to know.

I'm not saying that it's a little fire. I'm saying that we have to chose which fire is the priority. Usually racism is seen as little fires. Black man killed by police? Little fire. White woman gets raped by black man? Big fire. White woman gets raped by her white husband? What fire? There's no fires here, right? I'm certainly not trying to minimise violence against women, I'm just saying the analogy is faulty. Because really there are a lot of big fires. We need to stop all the fires. But we can't do that all at once.

Well put. There can be fires that people don't see, won't see.

@bookworm100

The "me too" movement, it was massive. All over the news, just as much coverage. People are calling this the "me too" moment for the black community. Not that it is the same, just in terms of the level of spotlight on the issue. I'm sorry but I don't agree, I think there has rightly been a big spotlight on women's issues and now that spotlight is rightly and deservedly on black lives matter. It doesn't mean women's issues have gone away, no more than racism will have gone away when this spotlight fades. But right now is a global moment of reflection on this particular issue.

^This. Well said bookworm.

Was BT's murder filmed? With GF we literally saw the murder. As Will Smith said, "racism isn't getting worse, it's getting filmed". I believe this is why the GF murder has had a more powerful impact. It's not that her life mattered less, but it's much easier to generate a movement around a categorical murder than reports of a police mistake. We've already seen confusion on this thread over whether her death was a deliberate murder or police mistake, that's why GF has generated a bigger movement, it's undeniable.

@DragonTrainedByLucy

I take your point (to some extent) but these particular protests have stemmed from black people (usually men but occasionally women) being systemically brutalised and murdered by the police force in a supposedly western, democratic country.

@Everythingsgoingmyway it’s not the boyfriends fault. He is a legal gun owner (although very anti guns myself so looking from a US perspective) and plain clothed officers entered their home in the middle of the night unannounced.

Why would you call 911 after if you knew it was police? Have you heard the call and the others from the neighbours?

I think you have missed a few facts about what really happened here and how the police have attempted to cover their tracks.

Please, women, can you just burn quietly for a little while until we have time for you too?

Nah.

I think some people might need to do some reading on what misogyny looks like globally. It's no less endemic than racism, no less severe in its effects on girls and women.

Goodness knows, it would be a turn-up for the books if the fire of women's lives was ever attended to. Better late than never would be about the best we could hope for.

When I see men - especially but not only white men - out marching in their hundreds of thousands (in non-pandemic times) for women's human rights, then I'll believe there's global understanding that women matter.

Why weren't so called white allies inspired to march in protest at black women's mortality and morbidy rates in childbirth in the US? Because it's not dramatic enough. It's racism AND it's sexism. Just like it's not sexy to march for housing reform, which would make a material difference to the lives of poor, black women.

I have been the victim of misogyny and Male violence my entire life. But as a white woman I have not been the victim of racism on top of that. I can acknowledge my white privilege and my female disadvantage. They do not contradict each other.

Yy ^ Bitchy and let's not forget, on a site mainly for mothers, that thousands mothers are terrified of their teenage sons being murdered by the police.

Did you personally take action organising things like marches and protests, or attending them during the #metoo?

Sort of. I had just been through a rape trial, I honestly wasn't aware there was a MeToo protest for longer than a day (and I thought that was tied in with a Trump protest, seemingly I have got both of those thoughts wrong - I am now educated due to this thread).

I did however share stats on women's violence etc., but I couldn't share my personal story as it went to appeal... So I guess in that sense I am a massive hypocrite. I did remove from social media all the people who defended Men with regards to MeToo.

Thank you to everyone, honestly I am reading and I am learning (and yes even those who you are calling me racist and goady I am reading and reflecting on that).

It is good that you are taking things on board rather than getting defensive. Ideally that’s what the world should be doing.