You're white you haven't experienced racism 2 *title amended by MNHQ at OP's request*

[PatricksRum]

I started a thread in the early hours.

I fell asleep
I've checked the thread and it's full.

Whilst the thread sadly proves my OP, there were a lot of great posts and understanding by some MNers.

I think this discussion is so important and I'd like to continue.

These photos sum up the ridiculous responses.

Do not tell me I am doing my oppressed race a disservice
Your racial prejudice faced as a white person do not trump the daily racism and fear for our lives

Finally, if your response to this is to explain your tiny grievances of racial prejudices you've faced then you are wholly part of the problem.

The racist behaviours and thoughts by your people is the problem. It is your duty to understand and tackle it. I repeat, it is not the duty of black people to educate you.

This is so mean. The people who dont get it are hardly going to learn the error of their ways by being shouted at. Also, the male/female comparison.. if a man was suffering from domestic abuse a woman wouldn't shout at him saying his experience didn't matter. Every injustice needs questioning.

People saying that we should all be tolerant of each other, that white people can experience racism too - you are gaslighting the OP’s and other BAME people’s experiences.

The fact that as a white person, we would be shocked and horrified to experience racial abuse and discrimination is IN ITSELF white privileged. Black people don’t have that privilege to be outraged, can you not see? For many black people, this has been a day-in, day-out fact of life.

White people who have experienced racism are not experiencing the relentless, unending, entrenched into society racism that black people do, every single day.

I'm white. I'm listening. DS, aged 11, has been following the news and was asking me a lot of questions this morning about George Floyd specifically and also about BLM. As white people living in a very white area we don't understand, but we are researching via Google and trying to educate ourselves as best we can.

I'm hoping that at least one person can read what I'm saying and use their privilege to aid our fight.

It's just a bizarre way of going about it. I get that people saying "white people suffer racism too" or "all lives matter" is ridiculous and infuriating but you created a thread trying to redefine the widely accepted definition of the words racist/racism, so of course the replies are going to focus on that!

People saying that we should all be tolerant of each other, that white people can experience racism too - you are gaslighting the OP’s and other BAME people’s experiences

The OP didn't start the thread to talk about her experiences though. She started the thread to say "white people can't experience racism". It was surely obvious that many of the replies were going to be "yes we can"?

This reading list has an American focus, but I would imagine still relevant. I've just come across it and will be starting with "How to be an Anti-Racist". I naively thought not being racist and not tolerating racism was enough, but I think I've finally had the realisation it isn't - and I'm only sorry it's taken me so long to realise. For me, it was trying to explain the situation to my children, and remembering how I had thought about racism as a child - that it was an evil from the past. So how are we still seeing these huge transgressions (George Floyd) and these seemingly small, but cumulative and therefore equally dehumanising acts? (e.g., data on CVs with black names not being offered the same opportunities)

And pictures of the cenotaph being defaced really upset me. But then a friend posted the thing - "Instead of saying, "It's horrible that a black man died, but destroying property has to stop", we need to say, "It's horrible that property has been destroyed, but killing black men must stop"." And I think that really resonated with me.

This is not a competition, this is a movement.

You're not fighting for your lives. How do you know that?
Do you actually feel that all black people's lives are at risk at the moment?*

Are you taking the piss?

@Abbccc

Do I actually feel that all black lives are at risk at the moment?

Is that a sick joke?

From the day we are born our lives are at bloody risk, never mind at the moment. What the bloody he'll.

@MarinePsychiatrist

I'm hoping that at least one person can read what I'm saying and use their privilege to aid our fight.

It's just a bizarre way of going about it. I get that people saying "white people suffer racism too" or "all lives matter" is ridiculous and infuriating but you created a thread trying to redefine the widely accepted definition of the words racist/racism, so of course the replies are going to focus on that!

People saying that we should all be tolerant of each other, that white people can experience racism too - you are gaslighting the OP’s and other BAME people’s experiences

The OP didn't start the thread to talk about her experiences though. She started the thread to say "white people can't experience racism". It was surely obvious that many of the replies were going to be "yes we can"?

Ok I’ll say it in a different way - the experiences of white people who have been racially abused, for being white, do not compare in any way, shape or form to what black people have gone through.

I’m not including the Holocaust in this, as that’s clearly a separate issue. I’m talking about the people who have feel that ‘white trash’ etc is a racist slur. These kind of events do not come from years of government policy designed to keep you in your place, to ensure you cannot get an education, to leave you in poverty, to convince others that you are inferior.

That is systemic racism, and it cannot compare to the experiences of white people being targeted in the way you are talking about.

Your posts are abusive

Really? Which ones?

This is so mean. The people who dont get it are hardly going to learn the error of their ways by being shouted at.

Who's shouting?

The fact that as a white person, we would be shocked and horrified to experience racial abuse and discrimination is IN ITSELF white privileged.

Great point. Brilliant post. @WhoAteAllTheWotsits

I'm white. I'm listening. DS, aged 11, has been following the news and was asking me a lot of questions this morning about George Floyd specifically and also about BLM. As white people living in a very white area we don't understand, but we are researching via Google and trying to educate ourselves as best we can.

Thank you @CatkinToadflax you and DS are doing a great job

It's horrible that property has been destroyed, but

Retired St. Louis Black police chief was shot dead trying to protect his buddy's shop from being looted. Do you have any clue about the destruction that is being done to black businesses and livelihoods? By Antifa thugs? Do you have any idea about the economic effect of this after the Covid lockdown? Brits who are thousands of miles away are trotting out meaningless platitudes whilst people's businesses are burning? Educate yourself.

www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/retired-police-captain-shot-to-death-at-st-louis-pawn-shop-in-slaying-caught-on/article_d482138c-0224-5393-bd87-9898bebb3fd1.html

I am trying to explain racism to my children; who find the whole thing baffling: they are aware of skin colour but see "John" with black skin as an interesting variation, just like "Joel" had red hair.

Racism is learned. For their sake, I need get up to speed as fast as I can on my anti-racist education.

Whoate said Black people don’t have that privilege to be outraged, can you not see? Really Hadn't thought of it like that. Thank you.

It's just a bizarre way of going about it..

No. We're tired.
I've tried. In the beginning I would by empathetic, I would water it down, I would educate people but I'm sick of it. I've had enough.
Don't tell me how to fight our fight.

@StillGardening Thank you for that post. Great reading list.

This is a great point I've seen written a lot recently:

Instead of saying, "It's horrible that a black man died, but destroying property has to stop", we need to say, "It's horrible that property has been destroyed, but killing black men must stop"

Do you have any clue about the destruction that is being done to black businesses and livelihoods?

A comment I read earlier:
in a capitalist society obsessed with materialism looting is one of the most powerful forms of protest

But I can do literally nothing about the fact that I was born white, yet you make me feel I should apologise for it.

What is the point of this thread

I asked this last night on the first thread and got told to "educate myself" 🤷🏼‍♀️

This thread doesn't make me feel I should apologise, I have nothing to apologise for. It makes me feel irritated because the whole thread seems to be just a shaming exercise where OP gets to talk down to and dismiss a load of thick, racist, white people while getting a lot of back up for doing so. It makes me not really GAF about OP and her experiences. Why should I? She doesn't care about anyone else's and knows that the political landscape at present allows her to be as rude and dismissive as she likes and no one will really tackle her on it because they're too scared of being called a racist. Posters were being called "racists" and "scum" on the original thread for making perfectly reasonable observations. To be clear you can be as obnoxious as you like OP, I don't care. I'll just do it right back

Racism is learned. For their sake, I need get up to speed as fast as I can on my anti-racist education.

@TheABC This is great! Thank you for helping change our future. It begins at home.

^A comment I read earlier:
in a capitalist society obsessed with materialism looting is one of the most powerful forms of protest^

@PatricksRum

You are sitting there in the UK, thousands of miles from the looting which is destroying people's businesses and you are an apologist for the looters? Shame on you. You know zip all about America.

This thread doesn't make me feel I should apologise, I have nothing to apologise for.*
Please tell me where I said you should apologise for being white?

It makes me feel irritated because the whole thread seems to be just a shaming exercise where OP gets to talk down to and dismiss a load of thick, racist, white people while getting a lot of back up for doing so.
Ah yes I should praise 'thick racist white people'

It makes me not really GAF about OP and her experiences. Why should I?
Because as a privileged white person _it is your duty to fight racism.
_
She doesn't care about anyone else's and knows that the political landscape at present allows her to be as rude and dismissive as she likes and no one will really tackle her on it because they're too scared of being called a racist.
Posters were being called "racists" and "scum" on the original thread for making perfectly reasonable observations. To be clear you can be as obnoxious as you like OP, I don't care. I'll just do it right back
Clearly. Poor you. If that's all you have to moan about right now then great. I'll continue in fear for my life whilst you aid racists in your community.

This thread has actually put me off.

Black lives matter. I also understand that while there is racial injustice in other spheres, it pales in comparison to the widespread racism experienced by black people in particular.

But this thread is so angry and feels like it's setting out to stir up conflict for the sake of it, I don't understand what the point of that is.

This is for the Brit looter apologists. Educate yourself.

abc13.com/desiree-barnes-dan-ladue-viral-video-east-village/6228201/

Do you really fear for your life daily in the UK? Really? Like you fear actual mortal violence on a daily basis as you go about your ordinary business?