You're white you haven't experienced racism 2 *title amended by MNHQ at OP's request*

[PatricksRum]

I started a thread in the early hours.

I fell asleep
I've checked the thread and it's full.

Whilst the thread sadly proves my OP, there were a lot of great posts and understanding by some MNers.

I think this discussion is so important and I'd like to continue.

These photos sum up the ridiculous responses.

Do not tell me I am doing my oppressed race a disservice
Your racial prejudice faced as a white person do not trump the daily racism and fear for our lives

Finally, if your response to this is to explain your tiny grievances of racial prejudices you've faced then you are wholly part of the problem.

The racist behaviours and thoughts by your people is the problem. It is your duty to understand and tackle it. I repeat, it is not the duty of black people to educate you.

*Your apologism for violent armed drug dealer Mark Duggan is abhorrent OP.

Apologism? I'm not sorry. Why would I apologise for a black drug dealer who was killed by an officer? You think I'd apologise for a black man drug dealing simply because I'm black? What kind of nonsense is this?*

Because you literally did just that up the page when you claimed:

"Cast your mind to Britain 2011 whereby the looting riots took place.
Again, in response to one of our black people murdered again by a white officer."

One of your black people? i wouldnt consider a drug dealer who went out to get a fire arm and was planning to kill someone one of my people.

Oh she’s back again 😂🙄

I don’t know why anyone is bothering to reply to this nonsense. You’ll only be told how to think a feel because of the colour of your ‘white’ skin.

@Mortgageandmoney This is so mean. No, what's mean is what happened to George Floyd.

I saw your original thread OP.
I feel very sad for the state of the world right now.

What are your feelings on the protests and coronavirus?
I dont want to come across as implying people shouldn't protest because they absolutely should protest the appalling murder of an innocent man based on nothing but skin colour, but I do get worried for the protesters when I see the crowds on the news.

@Mortgageandmoney
Also, the male/female comparison.. if a man was suffering from domestic abuse a woman wouldn't shout at him saying his experience didn't matter.

If there was a thread about domestic violence against women and someone came in and said "but men can be victims too" I doubt it would be met completely positively.

@WhoAteAllTheWotsits
the experiences of white people who have been racially abused, for being white, do not compare in any way, shape or form to what black people have gone through.

I'd make something of an exception for the victims of the Asian grooming gangs. Their plight being ignored for so long was due to institutional contempt for them and the reason they were targeted was partly to do with their race.

On the thread as a whole I feel it is perhaps unnecessarily confrontational, but I'm not black, I don't have those experiences. As a daughter of a white immigrant who you'd never guess was anything but British I feel anger at anti-immigrant rhetoric but it's never been aimed at me personally. I'm bi but in a straight relationship so have faced relatively little discrimination over my sexuality (and mostly from the LGB, as it was then, community, though I knew better than to risk outing myself in my horrendously homophobic school.)

I have explained racism to my son. I've never considered a child as being "too young", as long as they have the ability to understand.

How is antifa a fascist organisation when they’re anti-facist? Which is surely less facist than a pro-facist organisation?

Don't tell me how to fight our fight

I'm not. I'm just saying making up new definitions for words and then berating people for not knowing your made-up definitions is a strange way to get people to "read what I'm saying and use their privilege to aid our fight".

But if you think that's the best use of your efforts, knock yourself out.

We have systems. And procedures. Or we're supposed to.

So, you are thought to have committed a crime. What is supposed to happen? If there is sufficient cause, then you are apprehended, questioned, and if necessary arrested. This is in the circumstances of nobody in fear of their life - say forgery, jogging where they shouldn't (it being a differently coloured neighbourhood), having sat on their sofa. . .

If there is sufficient evidence to arrest, then you arrest. Then it goes to court. If there's sufficient evidence, you are deemed guilty.

But it turns out that justice is not colour blind.

You think I'd apologise for a black man drug dealing simply because I'm black? What kind of nonsense is this?

@PatricksRum Yet you expect white people to apologise for a murdering police officer in the US? What kind of nonsense is that? Every single post you contradict yourself one rule for you and another rule for whites.

If white people have to take responsibility for racism and every racist that exists, apologies and ‘fight’ with you how about you also take responsibility for all actions and crimes of black people and apologise?

@BovaryX I do understand where you are coming from with the looting. It is wrong, completely and utterly. And in the U.K., in response to events in America, we now have protesters in London who defaced the cenotaph - the memorial to our military service people from across the commonwealth. And you're right, we are thousands of miles from America and our policing is very different - so why do these destructive acts here? And also, these protests happened on the third anniversary of the London Bridge attacks, when British police officers ran towards danger - some of them unarmed - and only 3 years later they are being attacked on the streets.

What I took from the Facebook thing isn't that looting is justified, but that we should be more outraged at the killing of innocent black people by police (in a foreign country, admittedly), than by the destruction of property (which in my head, was the cenotaph). So whilst I could still feel horror at the damage done, I should be more outraged by the acts of racism.

That being said, obviously the looting in USA is now more than "just" the destruction of property as someone has been murdered, which is just adding to the tragedy. And looting only brings more distrust and reinforces stereotypes. So, I don't think it's helping the BLM movement.

I have no idea what the answer is, which is why I'm going to start by reading some of those books.

(Incidentally, not that it matters, I love the States and it's people. Have spent a fair bit of time there and still know the pledge off by heart. My heart aches for all Americans as this is a lose-lose situation at the moment).

Some info on “antifa”

According to the Anti-Defamation League, which tracks fascist and white nationalist organizations, the far right killed at least 42 people in the United States last year, 53 in 2018 and 41 in 2017. Despite what you might hear on Fox News, there is no proof that anti-fascist activists have killed anyone during the same period

www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/trump-s-antifa-tweet-right-wing-catnip-potentially-troubling-consequences-ncna1222686

That being said, obviously the looting in USA is now more than "just" the destruction of property as someone has been murdered, which is just adding to the tragedy. And looting only brings more distrust and reinforces stereotypes. So, I don't think it's helping the BLM movement

It's not just one person that has been killed in the lootings.

White girls in places like Rotherham and Telford have experience of structural & institutional racism that the OP couldn't even begin to comprehend.

Eh? How couldn't I be begin to comprehend men grooming women?

You know what I read this and my first reaction is :

You are not giving me a chance , if I don't do anything but agree with you , you say I'm wrong but won't explain why .

You are so hostile and I haven't done anything, why are you so angry with someone you have never spoken to.

Then I think some more and I guess this is how you feel all the time in the UK and that's terrible .

It's not my experience and it's not crossed my mind that everyone is not treated equally because I don't see it happening.

Is this somewhere close or am I still not there?

I'm not looking to offend .
I just think my perception is everyone is treated the same way as me because that is what I see and evidently that is not true from this thread.

These threads remind me somewhat of the parable of the wind and the sun.

The more the Op blows the more people put up their barriers. Why is that so you think? What might have been a better way to get the messsge across?

I do not know a single person who does not feel anger and disgust at the crimes that have been committed against black people. I do not know a single person who isn’t behind BLM. However I reserve the right to feel the same anger and disgust at the very real racism that my white Jewish best friend has had to face all through her life, that her grandparents lost their lives for.

I say that as a mixed race woman. You are damaging this fight op with your othering and your hate.

IHateCoronavirus

I think you've summed it up.

Hi PatricksRum your endurance is monumental.

I want to say something to the posters who are saying the response to murder of someone because of their skin colour, to fear for the life of a child because of their skin colour should be reasonable, rational, kind, polite, socially skilled and never show any compassion or understanding for those with a less refined, mature or acceptable response.

If this isn't you this isn't directed at you.

If it is you I would ask you to consider the possibility that you may be mistaken.

I've just watched 13th on netflix. If any white person here wants to argue how they have experienced the same racism as black people give it a watch then come back and tell us what you have learnt. I definitely learnt a lot. Has shocked and upset me. I'm a white woman and nothing absolutely nothing has happened to me in this scale. Thank you @Tonz for recommending

*Because you literally did just that up the page when you claimed:

"Cast your mind to Britain 2011 whereby the looting riots took place.
Again, in response to one of our black people murdered again by a white officer."

One of your black people? i wouldnt consider a drug dealer who went out to get a fire arm and was planning to kill someone one of my people.*

How is that apologising for Mark's drug dealing? Am I missing something?

I'm genuinely confused here. I should say he isn't black becaude the police claimed he went to get a fire arm which he didn't actually do? He doesn't stop being black if he does something wrong.

If this isn't you this isn't directed at you.

Op aimed her comments at all white people. I think it was she who directed it at all of us.

@Mumoblue

What are your feelings on the protests and coronavirus?

It's sad that people feel they need to resort to looting in order to stop being murdered by racists.

IHateCoronavirus, spot on.

I think the OP enjoyed 'holding court' on the last thread and is doing exactly the same on this one.

Speaking 'at' rather than 'to' people is never going to go down well.

Which is a shame, given the importance of BLM.

@WorraLiberty

IHateCoronavirus, spot on.

I think the OP enjoyed 'holding court' on the last thread and is doing exactly the same on this one.

Speaking 'at' rather than 'to' people is never going to go down well.

Which is a shame, given the importance of BLM.

A great shame indeed. The last things we need are more divisions and more hate.

I'm not. I'm just saying making up new definitions for words
I haven't made up a new definition.

and then berating people for not knowing your made-up definitions is a strange way to get people to "read what I'm saying and use their privilege to aid our fight".
I have no problem with people asking what it is. I have a problem with educating white people about racial.
*
But if you think that's the best use of your efforts, knock yourself out.*
Thanks for your permission

@PatricksRum

*Because you literally did just that up the page when you claimed:

"Cast your mind to Britain 2011 whereby the looting riots took place.
Again, in response to one of our black people murdered again by a white officer."

One of your black people? i wouldnt consider a drug dealer who went out to get a fire arm and was planning to kill someone one of my people.*

How is that apologising for Mark's drug dealing? Am I missing something?

I'm genuinely confused here. I should say he isn't black becaude the police claimed he went to get a fire arm which he didn't actually do? He doesn't stop being black if he does something wrong.

The weapon was recovered, the person he obtained it from was arrested confessed and was convicted. Stop being disingenuous and trying to add things that weren't said.