This is fucking sexist

[catflapuk]

So, I work in a fucking men's domain. I'm so angry.

We are a team of 3 people - one for Americas, me for Europe, one for APAC. Both my colleagues are male.

Another team is working on a global client project, including Americas, Europe and APAC (in this order) and requires our input. My team's names will be listed as the team of contributing experts.

The fucking lead of this team, who is also male, lists my male colleagues first and me last.

AIBU to be so fucking annoyed?

your manager is dismissive they can hardly ignore a whole catalogue of evidence.

Or they might reply with, "You're over-sensitive. There's no sexism here." Why had I just given him a whole catalogue of incidents? Because I was trying to explain the concept of microaggressions and death by 1000 cuts...

Maybe the guy has the same manic methods as me

One person being sloppy in their work doesn't excuse it in others.

Having a strop over that? Jaysus

I would not be that bothered by this.Maybe I'm "complicit in the patriarchy " but it is just a list...is it REALLY worth pointing it out and risk looking unprofessional? Not because your boss is going to look at you as a woman and think you are a hysterical, but because it is such a small issue that you are getting worked up about?
If you just say "I'd appreciate it if you could not put me last on the list as it makes it seem that male input is more valued than female, even though it may have been unintentionally done. " And leave it at that ?
I appreciate that I could be peddling the "oh don't be a big girl's blouse" route here, however, it is the 21st century, and I appreciate where these views are coming from -a good and ethical place .... but the other part of me says ...
BUT IT'S JUST A LIST!
And it doesn't mean that much , and you may be giving it more weight than you need to because you work in a male dominated industry. It maybe you aren't and I'm conflicted by my social conditioning via a patriarchy but also my desire for staunch feminism.
I think I might go to bed it's easier lol

If they've done it before op don't ignore it but maybe try the above line ^.

And fuckitty fuck fuck fuck fuck.
I've got an English literature and History degree and know there are many words in the English dictionary.
But you and them can go fuck yourself
And so can the patriarchy.

@Viviand

Seems to me that the OP thinks she is better than the two men and should come first. I don't know if she is, but it doesn't matter a sausage roll who comes first. She is the boss of her department and that is what matters. If position in a list is her major concern, then she must have a very sad life. At least her name is on the list!

OP doesn't think she's better, just that she expects the existing protocol be adhered to. Under that protocol, she is listed second. And it's not a simple list, it's the list of contributors, and the list is in order of contribution made. And you seem to think she should be grateful to be on the list at all? Why should OP's contribution be ignored?

@Viviand

Strange how people, of both sexes, think it is clever to use swear words. The English language is rich and there are many other words that can be used to emphasise what one wants to put over, not just 'Anglo-Saxon'. The 'F' and 'C' words are totally unnecessary. Try using other more potent words that are not foul. If my boss had ever used those words to me, I would have been very upset. Fortunately, he was a gentleman and knew the English language and how to use it properly. Swearing isn't clever and definitely isn't funny. If I was still in management, I would not look favourably on someone whose only adjective or adverb was the word 'F'. TGhat person would certainly be at the bottom of my list. Time for the OP to take a good look at herself. If you want to get to the top, either male or female, sorry female or male, you need to be less sensitive. Grow up!

Just because people are using swear words on an internet forum, doesn't mean they are also using them in all areas of their lives, dear. We are, in fact, capable of using language appropriately.

Yes I should be clear my ‘comedy gold’ was directed at Viviand and her sensitive fucking nature. It didn’t fucking reading well, it wasn’t fucking clear. Damn must be my fucking swearing; what a cunt I’ve been.

Who knows what the actual reasons are behind this choice without knowing the motivations of the person who did it. But 100% we still live in a world where if there isn’t direct sexism there is subconscious sexism so it is reasonable to think this could be the case. I feel for you. Keep fighting it if you have the energy, it’ll be a little dent in one for the women. On the other hand it could look petty - which it’s not - but could look that way. It’s a bit of a lose lose, sadly. Annoyed for you.

Quite surprised at how many posters are revealing how sloppy and unprofessional they are in work too. Not having an appropriate system and emailing people just because they've walked past your desks aren't really things to be proud of.

I can see why you're angry but I wouldn't have thought twice about it but seems like there is an issue at your workplace anyway so I can see why you have picked up on it.

For those who don't think this sort of thing matters, it might be an idea to read 'Invisible Women' by Caroline Criado-Perez. An interesting but depressing read.

I do wonder why, if it’s unintentional and no big deal, the man in this situation never puts himself last on the list. It’s not trivial and you are absolutely right to speak up.

And for those mentioning sending emails, if I was sending an email at work I would most definitely ensure that the distribution list was in order of rank or seniority. Not so much for managers on the same level, but I would always ensure that our directors, if included, were first on the list.

@dogsdinnerlady

Perhaps using the fuck word a bit less might be a good career move.

Don't be a fuckwit.

Maybe it's just the way he wrote it does it really matter 😂 not really sexist is it, personally I wouldn't be offended by it

No point in having expletives if they are so overused they lose impact.

I hear you op. I think sometimes a small thing can just be the last drop in a huge ocean.
What he did was wrong. Good on you for pointing it out! I wish I had your balls

Sorry the balls thing was meant to be a joke but I realise it's shite and makes me look a dick

@dogsdinnerlady

No point in having expletives if they are so overused they lose impact.

The ones used in reply to your dimwitted post have been impactful enough. But doubtless if anyone has been sufficiently impressed by your thoughts to want your writing advice, they'll be sure to let you know.

Telling other women off for swearing in response to blatant display of patriarchy in action is very Aunt Lydia - not a good look.

This thread is so frustrating to read. So many people jumping over themselves to say

• may be it's just the way he wrote it, it doesn't mean anything
• it's just an email, it doesn't mean anything
• personally I wouldn't mind
• you'll look petty raising this
• this is a trivial issue

These all boil down to the same thing, stay quiet, don't make a fuss.

Even if the other two people were women, the OP second have been second.

And for those you seem to be hard of comprehension - it's not a fucking email she talking about It is a project proposal

AND as the OP has said

the key contributors are listed first so the further down the list you are the less you contribute.
So, yes, it does matter.

Oh and to the "stop swearing" brigade. Stop trying to police other peoples language and maybe look at the real issue here.

Strange how people, of both sexes, think it is clever to use swear words.
I'd say they think it is enjoyable and effective to use swearwords where appropriate.
However, some scientists do believe it is a sign of intelligence.

I think you've massively over-reacted & that it does our cause no good.

@luckylavender you can count me out of your cause if you think that this isn't important.