This is fucking sexist

[catflapuk]

So, I work in a fucking men's domain. I'm so angry.

We are a team of 3 people - one for Americas, me for Europe, one for APAC. Both my colleagues are male.

Another team is working on a global client project, including Americas, Europe and APAC (in this order) and requires our input. My team's names will be listed as the team of contributing experts.

The fucking lead of this team, who is also male, lists my male colleagues first and me last.

AIBU to be so fucking annoyed?

It's shit and it needs to stop.

Perhaps using the fuck word a bit less might be a good career move.

First world problems... Either stop bitching here or complain where it is needed!

Seems to me that the OP thinks she is better than the two men and should come first. I don't know if she is, but it doesn't matter a sausage roll who comes first. She is the boss of her department and that is what matters. If position in a list is her major concern, then she must have a very sad life. At least her name is on the list!

Yes use the word CUNT instead

'stop bitching'

OP should be 'one of the lads' but simultaneously not swear so much love it

My male dominated workplace is v sweary. I feel much more comfy than my previous company that was not very sweary. I am sweary.

There are maybe 5 women in a company of 100 people.

@Viviand

Seems to me that the OP thinks she is better than the two men and should come first. I don't know if she is, but it doesn't matter a sausage roll who comes first. She is the boss of her department and that is what matters. If position in a list is her major concern, then she must have a very sad life. At least her name is on the list!

What if she is better?

What if she's been better than them for the last two decades? (I've no idea how old OP is and if a twenty year career history is even an option for her.)

What if she's consistently been rising to the occasion and has been compensating for the professional shortcomings of her mediocre male peers?

What if she's literally ranked #1 out of a workforce of 4k on performance?

...

And what if she isn't and hasn't?

What if she's just average? Don't men demand recognition for making an effort even when the results are less than stellar?

What if - out of three main contributors - she's technically the one who contributed only 31%, which technically falls short of a completely equal 33.33333...% percent she should have contributed? Would a male lead accept this as a reason for him getting slightly less recognition? [Reality check: like fuck - and, yes, I said "fuck" again, I'm just not very ladylike, I'm afraid - he would. Any old mediocre but ambitious man in the corporate world would take this as an invitation to launch into a lengthy speech om quality vs. quantity. Because penis. And, yes, I also just said "penis".)

And, FWIW, exceptionally talented women face sexism. But my hypotheticals matter because exceptional women arenonly ever so slightly disadvantaged compared to exceptionally talented men. But once you compare mediocre men to mediocre women, that's when the sexism shit really hits the fan.

There are two reasons why men unashamedly self-promote in corporate office poltics and women don't:

1. Men are socialised to engage in willy waving contests. Women are socialised not to.

2. Women are not stupid - and all the empirical data availablenon the subject suggest that men are being rewarded for this behaviour while women are being penalised. Look up the studies on perceptions on men vs. women negotiating compensation. Look up data on "assertive" vs. "bossy".

Does this enrage me? Fuck yes, it does! (Also, shit! I said "fuck" again ... no wonder I haven't made CEO yet!). Can I changebit single-handedly? No, I'm not delusional and I do know my limits. Will I unconditionally support every single woman challenging any tiny aspect of this culture of structural sexism? Like, FUCK, YEAH!

dogsdinnerlady
"Perhaps using the fuck word a bit less might be a good career move."

Are you for real? Men get to say and behave however they want. They get to take the credit for our work and use our hard work to promote themselves within the work place. They get paid better than us and get bigger bonuses than we do for the same or less work just because they have male genitalia between their legs. I can assure you that using the fuck word is not the problem. Why is it that woman are constantly told to amend their behaviour or language? Is it so we fit nicely in our stereotype box? Is it to make sure we're nice and compliant and just put up with the shit we're given? Men are described as confident and assertive while women are described as bossy and a bitch for the same language and behaviour that men display.

@FFSufingfckr, I'm a fucking heterosexual woman and I'm a little in love with you right now! You've expressed this so much more eloquently than I could have.

Also, gratuitous "fuck" because why the fuck

You may be being treated disfavourably. But why assume it's because you are female? Men and woman take favourites and take against people for all sorts of reasons - often irrational.. Perhaps ask if there is any logic to the listings that you are unaware of and express your disappointment. Best cut the "battle of the sexes" narrative and stick to what exactly has happened that is a cause for concern.

@BrexpatInSwitzerland thank you kindly.

Fuck my life.

Agree with the above "one of the lads" is definitely not a compliment.

And fuck it again because women are allowed to Swear too.

I'm in charge where I work. Primus inter pares with male peers. I see this all. Of. The. Time. It's wearing. YANBU op. This thread is utterly depressing, the enemy within.

Fuck. Just to make my opinions carry less weight.

Leeds city council started addressing council tax letters to Mr DP & Miss sisted. I contacted them via email pointing out the house is mine, I've lived here 15 years longer than DP I paid the council tax bills and it was in no way alphabetical so why would they do this. The next one was addressed correctly.

It does matter it's every day sexism

Why, after a lifetime of obvious, omnipresent sexism, would someone assume that this too is sexism? Was that the question?

@catflapuk if this sort of thing happens regularly you need to be recording all of the instances. The times, dates, circumstances around it, what happened and how that impacted you. Also keep any evidence you can. It's not for the purpose of getting anyone in trouble but if you bring it up and your manager is dismissive they can hardly ignore a whole catalogue of evidence. You've also got it if you ever need to take it up with your HR department as they always want details.

Strange how people, of both sexes, think it is clever to use swear words. The English language is rich and there are many other words that can be used to emphasise what one wants to put over, not just 'Anglo-Saxon'. The 'F' and 'C' words are totally unnecessary. Try using other more potent words that are not foul. If my boss had ever used those words to me, I would have been very upset. Fortunately, he was a gentleman and knew the English language and how to use it properly. Swearing isn't clever and definitely isn't funny. If I was still in management, I would not look favourably on someone whose only adjective or adverb was the word 'F'. TGhat person would certainly be at the bottom of my list. Time for the OP to take a good look at herself. If you want to get to the top, either male or female, sorry female or male, you need to be less sensitive. Grow up!

comedy (fucking) gold.

Amen to that.

We are so programmed to accept the order of things - pardon the unintentional pun - that we do not see what is at play here. The names should be listed as per subject area. And I'll tell you what I bet the fella that put your name at the bottom doesn't even realise what he has done. All these things are subliminal. Go have that conversation, say you feel the names should be in the order as per subject. If he doesn't see what your problem is - ie: somebody has to come last, then say then it won't matter if your name gets moved up the list (to it's rightful place). I'd be fuffing spitting nails as well.

Yanbu. I always order names on emails based on seniority. If people are equal I tend to write 'all'. It does make a difference, I would notice if someone more junior was listed first.

YANBU
I am amazed at how casual sexism just floats through society. I am horrified by the sexist things my son says to me (jokingly but I don't find it funny)... He certainly hasn't got it from home, or his wider family. It just seems to seep in from somewhere

Fuck hell yeah - bloody fucking sexism. Subliminal sexism. Hypocrites. Have to say it: sexism is not only perpetuated by men, women are probably the worst perpetuaters of it. "Perhaps saying fuck a little less might help - really!!. I tell you what, why doesn't she wear her hair up, a very short skirt, blouse unbuttoned to your cleavage and then in the middle of her presentation undo her hair and wisp it round her shoulders and smile sweetly at any man who catches her eye and then giggle a bit just for effect. Non so blind as those who refuse to see. Rant over ... I feel better for that

You have every right to be angry; I would be too, I would be too! I own my own business and when I do newsletters, I list people in alphabetical order. It makes everyone more inclusive and makes for a better team. Our customers notice it and like it.

I love the English language. It's beautiful, strange, diverse, flexible, confusing and best of all it's forever evolving. I know there are some wonderful and barely used words but sometimes there's nothing quite so satisfying and impactful as calling someone a cunt. Sometimes that's the only word that will do.

I put people in order of which I remeber them. If somebody saunters by my desk they are going at the start of my list. I have actually sent an email to one of these passers by that was meant for someone else. It was only an irrelevant work email though. I think you are possibly making a big deal of nothing. I would not even have given it a seconds thought. Maybe the guy has the same manic methods as me