To hope this racist woman loses her job - thread 2

[zscaler]

But Vlad says she doesn't want allies, so what's the point?

The point is, you do it because it’s the right thing to do, not because you might gain something (trust / respect / gratitude / praise) from it.

You do it because all white people have a moral responsibility to dismantle racism, and that shouldn’t be dependent on black people asking us to do it, or being polite, or being grateful for our allyship.

Because it’s the very bare minimum we could and should do.

What's worse? Being called Karen or being sworn at and called the n word for something that is out of your control.

Because a white woman is hungry and can't possibly help herself.

9gag.com/gag/aWx6qZ2?ref=ios

@VladmirsPoutine the vote is now 61% YANBU to 31% YABU (which is still bloody depressing, but not quite the slam dunk @NotTerfNorCis was clearly hoping for)

Surely you have read “To Kill a Mockingbird”? A sure fire way for a black man to get lynched is for a white woman to have said he tried to sexually assault her. So,no, few white women have pulled the trigger, but they might as well have.
Re “Karen” it is a shorthand for a certain kind of white women. If you don’t like that sort of “clumping” fair enough (but I know the type).
I am not surprised that Mr Cooper feels some regret about Amy Cooper’s downfall. He ultimately just wanted her to follow the rules and get her flipping dog on a lead! Amy Coopers fate is the result of the huge and unaddressed, systemic racism in the US. And what she did was egregious.

Re. the challenging of the use of Karen: I used to challenge the use of the word Handmaid as sexist and reductionist. I was roundly told off on the basis that it was a useful term for feminists (and I am one) to describe a certain type of woman and that my challenging it was an attempt to limit feminist discourse. I stopped challenging it on FWR.

For me the term Karen is similar. It is useful shorthand used by WOC to describe certain white women when discussing racism. So I don't get het up about it on threads about racism.🤷‍♀️

Plot twist: I'm black and my name is Karen..

(actually, that's not really that exciting, is it?)

The only reason anyone is getting het up about the term "Karen" is vanity. They are either called Karen or know a lovely Karen.

It's used as symbolic shorthand for a certain set of behaviours displayed by some people within a certain class of people. The fact that they are more angry about the use of the name Karen then they seem to be about the reason the term exists in the first place tends to prove the point of its usage in the first place - that whatever the greater problem (in this discussion, state sanctioned violence against back men, weaponised against them by white women) certain people will centre their issues as of greater importance (Not all Karens....). Somewhat ironic really, considering FWR goes up in arms (rightly) when transwomen try to put themselves at the centre of issues effecting women.

A couple of years ago, the term "Wendy" was popular. It came from a novel, in which a character called Wendy hijacks another girl's friendship group and turns them against her. It was symbolic shorthand. If someone said, "I've been Wendied", people would know what you meant. It did not imply that everyone called Wendy IRL was out to steal your friends or was not a nice person.

Being black is not a free pass to be sexist or misogynistic... there's no equivalent of "Karen" for white men
There is: Brad, Chad, Frank, Kevin and Richard
For women there is: Becky, Karen and Susan

@barshinskaya FWR is a whole different barrel of shit. I'm GC so used to agree with some views expressed there especially wrt TW(are not)W.

But once you cotton to the notion of one rule for les blancs and another for les noirs it changes your whole perspective. Of course Wendy is a term used and not complained about here. White women always change the goal posts - that's why I can't trust them. And before anyone says NAWW (not all white women) May I say again I am half white and I am scared of you WW. Honestly why can't white women just for one second listen. I know a lot have between this and the last thread and that is amazing but then it becomes a lottery - which sort of white woman will you run into in your weakest moment? One who will help you up and not think of you as a threat or one who will fully indulge in tears and the whole works because she knows she can?

And to all white women offended by the Karen name. What do you have to say about black women who are actually called Karen? How can it then be classist and sexist and racist? I'm sure there's a black woman called Karen somewhere thinking wtf are these MNetters on about. Thing is - that's not because she's ignorant - it's because as a black woman she's expending her entire mental/emotional energy trying to cope as a black woman in white society rather than being offended over a name.

All the white women complaining about Karen have never known a single day of struggle. And I'll tell you another thing - this country is obsessed with class. If Karen is considered 'lower class' then so be it - the worst racism I have ever faced and by those of others who I've interviewed for an article I wrote about racism have always been from middle/upper class white women - that's why entitlement comes into it. So what should we be calling you? Katherine? Chloe? Apple-Blueberry-Cheesecake?

Blaming women for male violence, how novel. If we're only allowed to be angry at the absolute worst thing and not things that are also bad but not worst, why complain about women who almost certainly won't kill anyone rather than men who actually did?

I do hope BAME people don’t think all of us white women are monsters, waiting for our opportunity to attack you. Not all of us are like the woman in the video you know

@LikeItOrNotBut Thank you. That's what I meant r.e. Allies. I don't want to be your allies but you need to be mine. And not in a situation in which a black man is at risk of death - no it means asking yourself if the black intern 'doesn't fit the team' and if she/he doesn't why not. It's about not stroking our hair and asking us 'where we are REALLY from'. If you want to be an ally - it's all very small steps which mean the WORLD to us. Don't 'other' us.

Really @MorrisZapp You won't get me to express any semblance of empathy nor sympathy towards white women. I literally fear white women. So get out of this thread with your apologisms for white women basically white womening. It is not I who you will kill.

MorrisZapp, this is no way about blaming women for male violence. Amy Cooper wielded control of white male/armed/police violence against an innocent black man.

Isn't Becky a bit problematic though? Anti-semitic?

Who has blamed women for male violence?

Ok well that's stark, and I have no response. So I'll hop it as requested.

@vladmirspoutine I agree with your post, everybody of all races need to tackle this issue. Why should you have to fight it alone, please believe me, you are not! There are a lot of people of all races that are disgusted. I grew up in a white and Asian community. Most people were racist, thought it was okay to talk to BAME people like shit, looked At them as if they were worth less based on race. It’s appalling & to this day I carry white guilt. Unfortunately racism is bred in families, it’s seen as okay because nobody has ever challenged it. The time is up, we all need to come together & fight this. What happened to George is beyond horrific, his family will never recover from this. I know for a fact I wouldn’t

You won't get me to express any semblance of empathy nor sympathy towards white women

That's pretty odious. I would never deny sympathy (and I hope empathy) to people because of the colour of their skin.

If anybody is interested in trying to understand this issue, watch a movie called “The Help” I watched this a number of years ago. I literally cried in my bathroom after watching this. It’s the tip of the iceberg for black women/men experiences but after watching it, you may understand how much damage has been done over the years and perhaps understand why white women are feared by Some black women

But Vlad says she doesn't want allies, so what's the point?

Because you're not doing it for her personally. You're doing it because it is right and good for you and for the whole of society. This has reminded me of the situation I mentioned in Thread 1 where colleagues got mad when they were told an article they were sharing was racist. One of them, in an open meeting, with tears in her voice said how awful it felt to be accused of racism (no one had accused her, only the article) and then she turned directly to me even though I had not been alone in calling attention to the article but I was the only black one, and listed all of the things 'they' had supposedly done for me that proved they weren't racist and that I should be grateful for. I felt like I was in a nightmare that no one else could even see.

Of course not all white people are like that and racism cannot be eradicated without white cooperation. But I am not personally grateful for white support.

I would never deny sympathy (and I hope empathy) to people because of the colour of their skin.
But it would appear that you would deny people of your sympathy, empathy and common sense because they are a man.

Please let me know when all the above has been achieved and I'll issue a 'cease and desist' letter to all black women globally.

But it would appear that you would deny people of your sympathy, empathy and common sense because they are a man.

Not at all. If an arrogant, entitled woman bullied a vulnerable man in a park and wouldn't stop when the man was obviously very upset, I'd be on his side.

Not at all. If an arrogant, entitled woman bullied a vulnerable man in a park and wouldn't stop when the man was obviously very upset, I'd be on his side.

What happened in this case is that an arrogant, entitled (white) woman threatened a black man with racist police who murder black men for a lot less than being black and asking a white woman to obey the law.