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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Apparently I'm racist

176 replies

Charlieandthechocolatecake · 26/05/2020 23:17

I should have name changed but I'd like to think I'm made of tougher stuff.

I asked to be added to a WhatsApp chat advertised on MN for people with no friend.

All was well until I asked 'why' people believed they had no friends. I was very honest in my answer.

I'm mixed race (pretty much equal parts black, white and Asian) and I'm from Croydon. I now have a black DP and 2 sons with him.

In the chat I said that I believe the reason I have no friends is because of my race. I grew up around a lot of mixed race people and I was honest when I said most of them had a superiority complex. I was often told by people that looked like me that we had the best of both worlds, we were more beautiful (I definitely am not!) and that we could pick and choose what we wanted to identify as.

Anyway, these opinions have always had an affect on me. I don't agree with them at all even though I can see why they believe it's true. As I've got older I've avoided many people with a similar race to my own. I've always struggled with my own identity and although those opinions came from people when I was in my early to late teens, I'm worried about meeting those same kind of people again. I feel like whenever I have, they use me as some kind of confidant to air their views.

Anyway, I said on the chat that I think people will judge me because of the same way I judge others the same colour as me. Hence, why I have no friends. I was being honest. I know it's something I need to work on but it's hard. I'm not racist. Prejudice probably.

The chat was going so well until then. I was called a racist and I was told I was disgusting. I apologised and left the chat.

I don't know what I want from this.

OP posts:
Charlieandthechocolatecake · 27/05/2020 16:55

@chajazam you are right. I shouldn't let this be a friendship blocker. I definitely need counseling of some sort but it's taken me a while to realise that. Growing up was hard and I learned to ignore anything bad that happened and just get on with it.

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Charlieandthechocolatecake · 27/05/2020 16:56

@pumpkinbump my negative views are based in attitude rather than skin colour.

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Charlieandthechocolatecake · 27/05/2020 16:57

@PlanDeRaccordement thank you, I will definitely have a look at that. I am 100% introverted with an extrovert personality. Does that even make sense!?

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Charlieandthechocolatecake · 27/05/2020 17:00

@fuckinghellthisshit I didn't mean to offend you. I have never met you or spoken to you so I wasn't talking about you. I was talking about people I have met and spoken to. Again, my apologies if I have offended you in any way.

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Charlieandthechocolatecake · 27/05/2020 17:01

@BrokenBrit I understand your comparison. I'm just a bit lost with it all.

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MerlinMoo · 27/05/2020 17:14

I'm a bit of everything, tanned skinned, jet black hair, oriental looking but I'm not oriental. No one thinks I'm British and always asks where I'm from which I bloody hate. Don't really fit in anywhere. I have a few good friends but I'm an introvert. I found it tricky in middle school trying to find a group where I could just belong. Do you suffer with anxiety op? Btw I don't think you were racist. I hope you find some lovely friends. Don't worry about that group chat x

Ulver · 27/05/2020 17:18

This post is very confusing and I really don’t know what to make of it at all.

Charlieandthechocolatecake · 27/05/2020 17:35

@ScarletFever I don't mean to be derogatory, I'm talking about myself after all. My main issue is that people won't like me. Not vice versa.

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guanciale · 27/05/2020 17:38

what do you think the average mn racial make up is lol

Redleathertrousers · 27/05/2020 19:31

I'm mixed race (black and white) and I also find your post really odd. Yes I agree there still exists a fetishizing of mixed race people especially children/babies as being the most beautiful. Ditto the colourism and good/bad hair crap within some black communities. I just don't subscribe to all that crap. I dont quite understand why you would ostracise yourself from all mixed race people? You sound quite hard word tbh.

Redleathertrousers · 27/05/2020 19:31

hard work*

EveryoneLoves09876 · 27/05/2020 19:41

It is technically racist (racism is a type of prejudice) because you are deliberately avoiding people or feel nervous around them due to their ethnic background. Doesn't make you the worst person alive especially as you explained it. For example it might offend me if I was of that background. But any they clearly weren't up for listening. Sounds like you weren't going to get on anyway.

Mnthrowaway20202 · 27/05/2020 19:56

I think you said/did too much for a first introduction with new people.

Frankly I don’t think mixed (black/white) people hold those thoughts generally about other mixed (black/white) people. If anything they can relate to each other more.

Mnthrowaway20202 · 27/05/2020 19:57

People change and mature as they grow up. You might have come across people in school with that attitude but chances are, they’ve changed and no longer hold those same thoughts.

Ulver · 27/05/2020 21:45

Tbh I think living in Croydon might be your issue?

It seems a like a quite hostile urban environment to me. I’ve only been there a few times and didn’t like it.
A lot of Gangs from Croydon come into central London to thieve so the place has a certain reputation.
You might like it more if you went somewhere with a bit more of a mellow approachable culture.

MitziK · 27/05/2020 22:25

The gangs aren't from Croydon. It's actually quiet in terms of gangs in the area because of the transport links - it's kind of a neutral zone for that reason (most incidents happen between members of outside gangs knowing somebody is travelling through). I've worked in related areas - a lot of kids/teenagers from London proper are sent to school here precisely because their parents want them further away from the dangers/influences of where they live.

The area mentioned was more of a problem 10-15 or so years ago. But there are still vastly more parts of Croydon that aren't urban - even the specific road the OP mentioned is on the edge of one nature area and ten minutes walk from a nature reserve - drive another 25 minutes into Croydon itself rather than the area with a London postcode and you are literally in farmland, ancient woodland, passing listed properties and the like.

From my house just outside the town centre, you can hear Tawny Owls at night, for example - which isn't particularly urban - and a twenty minute bus ride takes you to medieval churches, more nature reserves, ancient downlands - Croydon isn't just the shitty bit by the station, the appalling central shopping area or the bits that join onto London.

OP's not there anymore, anyway.

Leflic · 27/05/2020 23:00

I think if you’re not actually white you are always faced with explaining, justifying or explaining your “other side”. It’s not that people are anti colour but it’s a difference . If you look one thing or another no one brings it up in conversation.
I’m a farmers daughter, there’s literally no diversity. But within the farming community I’m from a farmer family first because that’s where the divide between lifestyles is greatest. It’s not black and white it’s country vs urban ideals.

But within the general community, hairdressers ask ‘where do I get my amazing hair from”, people comment on my skin and people have assumed I’m vegetarian or have religious leanings. It’s a talking point and It does make you a bit paranoid.
My black friends might have overt racism but being clearly black no one questioning them about their background constantly, its sort of assumed IYSWIM.

Charlieandthechocolatecake · 28/05/2020 00:40

Its near impossible to reply to you all individually. I don't think I explain myself very well at the best of times. I just say what I think. Which isn't always right. I know. I don't actively avoid people that look like me. I'm sensitive. I'm wary of people generally. Trust issues bla bla bla. I find it hard to make friends because I feel like people will judge a book by it's cover. I think being mixed race and with my previous experiences, I have the right to feel that way, and voice it. @Deepgreen I feel we are similar. Same as @Eckhart . I want friends who are open and honest. Life is too short to beat around the bush all the time. I accept that I need to slow things down a bit.

Funnily enough, I grew up with a lot of racist family. Black and white. They weren't racist to me because I was family. Strange, I know, but that's life. That's people.

I'm just getting to the age where I want friends. Kids are getting older, I'm settled, were not moving around the country anymore. I've just had some time to sit down and critique myself. I appreciate all of your views and I will come back here to read them again. Free counselling I suppose!

@Rubyroost you seem excited about me being outed. Bless you. I haven't been outed. I fully expected somebody from the chat to come along.

Last but not least, to all the mixed race people here who I have offended or upset, I have never met you. I have never spoken to you. I have no idea who you are. I am not referring to you in the slightest. This is about people I have met. Sorry.

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DarkUnicorn · 28/05/2020 03:31

@ToastyFingers

That's quite sad Sad I'm mixed race and I'm not like that at all. I've spent most of my life feeling like a bit of a mongrel actually.
ToastyFingers, don’t ever feel like that. Sending you hugs
Charlieandthechocolatecake · 28/05/2020 04:11

@ToastyFingers I'm sorry you feel that way. It's awful isn't it? Constantly having to feel like you need to make more effort because you're not 'purebread'. Feeling unaccounted for. Not being able to tick a box because you're 'other'. Cautious acknowledging you're heritages individually. I don't know if these are you're experiences but they're mine. I know what it feels like to be a mongrel. To not feel be considered whole.

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Eckhart · 28/05/2020 10:13

@Charlieandthechocolatecake You sound like a really decent person, who's had a bit of a shit run of things (to put it gently)

If anybody makes you feel like a mongrel or not to be whole they need a bloody good poke in the eye. It's nothing to do with you if they feel like that, just like it's nothing to do with me if some idiot thinks I'm crap in some way or other. You're the person who gets to decide whether or not you're awesome. If people make us feel shitty, it's our responsibility to avoid the damn fools, and try not to get jaded by their behaviour so that we start to either believe them, or hide from everybody just because of them,

I hope you find your people. Your friends are out there; the ones who will think of you as amazing and unique, and who you'll be your finest, most happy and powerful self with.

Honest and straight to the point are not always well accepted traits. People, especially negative and inauthentic ones, really don't like a spade being called a spade. But from our side, it's a useful filter. It turns a lot of people off, but only the ones we don't want to be friends with anyway. I think this has been your experience with the group.

Rubyroost · 28/05/2020 10:49

@Charlieandthechocolatecake yeah lockdown is so boring, got to get my excitement from somewhere. From what you say though someone did call you disgusting, just by private message. But there did appear to be a little more to the story, that you said something else. I do think some people can be rather sensitive when discussing race though and it does seem some people cry racism for the smallest things sometimes. I don't think people always understand what racism is anymore

nicannie · 28/05/2020 11:13

@Rubyroost it seems the disgusting thing has only came out that it was a private message now it's been shared OP wasn't called disgusting in the group by the members. There was a bit more than this post describes that was said in the group, but again I'm not here to shed light on that all as it won't change anything.

The lady that was offended by the comments made, who then made the racist statement left the group immediately as well, so I can't comment who called OP disgusting but the whole group didn't turn and jump and call OP racist as it's made out, it was a disagreement between two people, one being the OP

flirtygirl · 28/05/2020 13:24

My children are mixed race as is my younger sister and lots of cousins. This has been discussed for years. Some mixed race do have a superiority complex due to the media, culture, colorism and fetishism (by both black men and other men).

Even down to being called a coconut or becky with the good hair. However, op you have internalised so much of this, if you don't let yourself be fetisized. If you don't be superior, if you don't generalise and put everyone into one group, you will find it alot easier to navigate. Not saying you feel superior by the way.

One daughter has the hair type that grows very long and can be straight or have beautiful curls. The other has hair that was long but thicker, not as easily straight and also beautiful curls. I do not allow others to praise the straighter texture hair only. All these little things add up. The straighter hair one is also the lighter one by a few shades. These things are insidious and start from birth.

You have heard and seen these things your whole life and they have affected you, so get some therapy.

However avoiding mixed race people is wrong, some of my cousins were bought up in a white vacuum and so when talking to them, you would think they were white but so what. They are still mixed race and still know and appreciate both sides of their culture. Too much reliance is placed on whiteness or blackness depending on where you live, grew up and your accent and what interests you pursue. Just because you grew up or like the theatre does not mean that you are white now and just because you like grime does not mean you are black. This is the influence of racism and colorism that likes to group people. None of us should allow this to happen or go along with it in any way shape or form.

White people can like grime or opera or both. Mixed race people can like grime or opera or both. Black people can like grime or opera or both.

Mixed race people are fetisized just like black girls and women are. What you say about leaving a club is what many black women will say and also men thinking they are easy.

Your problem is that people of all the ages can be unpleasant but you are doing yourself no favours if you cut yourself off from your own race or the mixed race part of your race. You won't like everyone. No white person likes all white people and no black person likes all black people. You have been unlucky in the ones you have met but you won't change that if you carry your opinion on. You have reinforced your way of thinking instead of challenging it.

My sister, daughter and cousins and lots of my wider family, would be upset if they knew that you would not be friends with them because they are mixed race. They are so different in education, outlook and personality, just like other people and you would surely find common ground with at least one person. From private educated, now a professor and still battling prejudice on his campus and towards himself even though he is a professor because he is younger and mixed race, to living in a council house loving to club and having children who street dance and has African, afro carribbean, white and mixed face friends, very socialble but not ambitious and happy to coast through live, also great cook and great baker. To a great artist of pots of mediums but not sociable, very hot on colorism as has felt it but would be friends with anyone if she could be bothered to make friends, as happy in her own company. To my builder cousin who mixes with everyone, loves the pub and the footie.

These are a snapshot of the mixed race people in my family,all so very different so to shut yourself off from making friends with other mixed race people is to shut yourself off from a hell of a lot.

I think that you focused too much on them having a superior complex, some do, some don't, but don't focus on that, please focus on all the genuine people put there of any way including mixed race. Remind yourself if and when you come across that attitude, that it is not their fault if they are like that as they probably had a white mother who praised their looks and hair and skin tone as did happen alot when mixed race kids were mostly born to white mother. Or a black grandmother who internalised colourist and told them they were lucky to be lighter and have good hair or a not so wide nose. The last 35 years a lot of mixed race kids are born to bame mothers and their experiences will be so different because of this fact alone.

Remind yourself that racism and colorism is the roots of any superiority complex and this was taught to them comments about good hair, nicer features, nice skin. Growing up in a white area and passing or getting better opportunities as mixed race is simply more palatable to white people. Look at film, programs and media, modelling, etc. Mixed race people were accepted first and put forward more because they were more acceptable than a darker skin. Simple as that.

This is what caused the bullying many describe at school from black children as mixed race and black were pitted against each other and black people put at the bottom. Change your outlook to rally against this. Say no and do not go along with it. The colourist and classification. Many black actors still only choose their love interest to be white or mixed race, at a push light skin black and these attitudes lead to the superiority complex you spoke about, ostracism from black people who are sick of it, etc. You are caught in the middle of the effects of Racism, prejudice and colourist.

Yes colorism is rife in black communities but lots is being done to stamp it out, just like the work clearly needed to be done on racism. People think the UK has no racism compared with the US, but it is ongoing and insidious. Subtle covert, daily ongoings of micro aggressions and bad jokes. Brexit at least makes it more overt and actually you know more where you stand.

Choose to have nothing to do with this, so you found some with a superior attitude, find others.

I understand what you said op and I did not think you are racist, I think you are simply navigating your life and have had bad experiences and clearly little guidance on navigating it from your parents. You need secure parents to bring up secure mixed race children. It starts at home and your identity has been affected because of living in a vacuum like you said both sides showing racism.

I hope you can muddle through op and work on it as it will change and you can make friends of all races, especially mixed race and black if you want.

Charlieandthechocolatecake · 28/05/2020 16:34

@Eckhart thank you. It's strange how a complete stranger can out my own thoughts into words.fornwhatnits worth, the group chat was lovely while it lasted. Like @nicannie said, it was just 2 people who made it abundantly clear that my feelings weren't valid. I messaged both directly to apologise and explain further. what do you know, they never replied. I left because it was a group to make friends and I didn't want my presence to put off others. My choice completely. It was a lovely group, even if there were too many pet pics for my liking (jealous because I rent).

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