More bashing of mumsnet

[Ikeasucks]

Why are orgs and businesses just capitulating to this bullying? mobile.twitter.com/MForstater/status/1265201870437519360

[Winesalot]

Actually, a concerning trend on twitter I have noticed is how phobic to use the words 'male' and 'female' let alone man and woman.

In other words, to make any distinction at all between people who have different reproductive systems (regardless of the potential for reproducing those organs have at any time in the life of that person) is phobic. It is ONLY allowable to talk about societial acceptance of how someone considers themselves.

It reminds me of a sci-fy book where the word 'holiday' was the only word left that had never taken on a new meaning and been deleted for misuse.

[Winesalot]

now not how.

[YgritteSnow]

zscaler that's the second thread in a row I've read where you've been right on the money.

That made me because it's the second thread I have read where I thought they were talking absolute shite.

[megletthesecond]

GMB should hang their heads in shame. I was seriously considering joining.

Pity they don't regards women's rights as important .

[YinMnBlue]

It’s not bashing mumsnet to point out that the site has a serious transphobia problem

Really?

How is it transphobia (hatred and fear of trans people, presumably) to wnat the distinction between sex and gender maintained at the point where it compromises sex-based rights?

How is it transphobic to be concerned that children (given that this is a parent-focussed site) should not be enabled to have irreversible treatment when they are minors?

These are the only things, as far as I an see, that gender critical feminists want.

That is what I want. I do not hate people because they are trans, I do not hate the state of being trans, I do not want to see trans people discriminated against in daily life, or have their equal opportunity rights to employment, health services etc compromised.

How is that transphobia?

[peachgreen]

@SharonasCorona It's not conjecture. Here is the link. www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3911357-So-sick-of-this

You lot are unbelievable. "Give us examples of transphobia! No not that one, that's made up. That's just a screenshot. That's been deleted so it doesn't count." Etc etc.

[DickKerrLadies]

Is it transphobic to ask questions about whether recording crimes by gender identity rather than sex may cause any issues WRT things such as crime statistics?

[popehilarious]

Peach, are you genuinely saying that munsnet deleting transphobic comments means munsnet is transphobic?
No one in this thread has said those sentences you've quoted, btw.

[thecatfromjapan]

I'll keep saying this: the GC issues are a tiny part of MN.

The fact that the GMB are prepared to prioritise 'addressing' that, rather than reaching out to women - in a moment where pretty much the only way to reach a large group of women is via MN - just says that their priority is not reaching out to women.

And that tells us that women still face extraordinary levels of oppression and discrimination.

[donquixotedelamancha]

It’s not bashing mumsnet to point out that the site has a serious transphobia problem.

Have you never been on twitter? What gets said about trans people on many internet fora far outstrips any transphobia on here. The most which will get past the mods on here is perhaps a little ignorance.

What you mean is MN has a feminist problem.

If this site isn’t willing to address that, it (and it’s users) have to accept that there are a lot of advertisers, organisations and individuals who won’t want to associate with it.

I'd be facinated if you could cite some examples of sites with stricter rules against transphobia than here. You can't misgender or abuse and threads which promote unhelpful stereotypes get pulled.

they are deleted pretty promptly by moderators however and I've never thought to collect evidence but I will photograph future examples I see before they are deleted.

Surely that is the very model of a site which has not got a transphobia problem?

[popehilarious]

I think you'd have to be a total imbecile to deny that any platform that instantly posts unvetted posts is open to people posting anything vile. I've seen some truly hideous overly racist stuff on Facebook, Twitter, newspaper comments pages. It doesn't make those platforms inherently phobic - it's what they do with it that counts.
I think if people actually need this explaining then the world wide web is not the place for them.

[thecatfromjapan]

It also tells us who holds real, actual power - within the GMB and elsewhere.

And it's not women, and it's not women who feel able to speak and act on behalf of women.

Women deserve way better than unions who do not represent us as women.

Purporting you're representing us - but only if we prop up male power - is fake representation. And the women who go along with it are, essentially, ventriloquist dummies - even if they don't know it yet.

[Lostmyshityear9]

the so-called feminist sections (ha!)

@MindyStClaire so-called feminist sections? if the feminist sections are not feminist, what are they?

[donquixotedelamancha]

Did the "Union for Mums" really capitulate? They just posted a statement that they support trans people... Or did they cancel the "partnership" or what?

They cancelled the partnership. They don't want to use any website to communicate with women if it might have transphobic remarks on it somewhere.

At the moment that means they are not communicating with women in a targeted way but obviously they are still using upstanding, abuse free sites like twitter for other comms.

[ScreamingBeans]

Join Toby Young's freedom of speech site. That's probably a better investment than the GMB if you don't believe women have penises and don't want to share a changing room with a man in the workplace.

[donquixotedelamancha]

so-called feminist sections? if the feminist sections are not feminist, what are they?

Real feminism is about equality for all, particularly men. MN 'feminists' don't seem to want to prioritise men's needs at all. Clearly they are fascists.

[popehilarious]

dontquote yes, it's absurdly hypocritical to still use Twitter if you want to use a platform that only hosts "correct" views. People up in arms over the phrase "women are female" don't seem to mind the violent White Supremacist stuff on there.

[Langsdestiny]

It's not a surprise to me that a union doesnt centre women.

[thecatfromjapan]

If women held actual, real power - of the kind we're constantly being told we have, there would be a damn sight more compromise with the views of women.

There would be attempts at persuasion - not this all-our war to silence any corner of dissent.

It's ridiculous to pretend otherwise.

The reason silencing and attack works is precisely because women's rights are quite recent - so we do not have a vast number of women, securely-embedded, in positions of power, comfortable with speaking as and for women.

Instead, we have a scattering if women who made it through horrendous discrimination, and a larger group of women whose positions are very insecure, and overly-reliant on pleasing a still male-interest prioritising power base.

[justasking111]

Look the union men I had to meet needed a bath and a fresh set of clothes more than anything.

[BuzzShitbagBobbly]

It always depresses me why people will move like the speed of light to stand in front of alleged, unproven, fictitious (choose your word) claims of transphobia on a largely female focused chatboard; but will completely ignore, turn their backs on or rubbish women's rights, safety, privacy and dignity on the same board.

Never see them doing such heavy lifting on Twitter, Kiwi, etc etc.

These people only ever want to shut women up. Wonder why.

[thedancingbear]

Another vote here for 'Mumsnet has a definite transphobia problem'.

The difficultly with proving this is that MN has, out of commercial necessity, got pretty good at deleting openly abusive posts and threads where the veil slips too far.

But anyone with half a brain can see it.

[thecatfromjapan]

I mean, it's kind of mad asking for women's views and then fucking off when you get those views. Or squealing because the most popular women's space on the internet isn't 'the right sort of women'.

It's both bullying and, actually, completely fucking insane.

[NekoShiro]

I think the issues I'd within the user base, it's a culture clash, here's mumsnet, a site aimed towards mum's, that are aged what, 20+? But I'd probably say most posters have adult kids, how else would you have so much free time to have lengthy debates on a forum? So let's say 40+ as the main, and now these women are being presented with their children, the next generation shaping their new culture and its a shock, out crys of men in dresses with mental issues invading our sacred spaces, whereas the younger people see it as sexual freedom, breaking out from their parents culture I to their own new world, climate changes happening all around and the job markets garbage, so what's left to work towards? I think they've chosen to work towards an idea of a loving community where everyone is accepted, obviously that has aa tonne of issues attached to it, but hey they're young and only have good intentions for the world, I remember being bright eyed and hopeful.

And who are advertisers advertising to? People with spare cash flow, you could aim for the super wealthy which works for some companies but most companies have to hit that 18-30 market of young professionals still at home or house sharing, so it's not shocking that they'd bow out to appease their market.

[DickKerrLadies]

Mumsnet moderation principles for discussions around gender identity and sex
www.mumsnet.com/info/trans-rights-moderation-policy

1. We believe in free speech and civil debate. So we will, for instance, allow people to discuss biology and scientific evidence.

2. We don’t allow posts which are derogatory or aggressive towards trans people. We believe there are ways to express both opinion and facts without crossing this line.

3. Sweeping negative generalisations about any group, including trans people and gender-critical feminists, won’t be tolerated.

4. Free speech by definition applies to all; for a debate to take place, opposing views which follow our Talk guidelines need to be tolerated, even if you disagree with them.

5. We won’t allow aggressive or rude behaviour towards our moderation team.

'Sweeping negative generalisations' and 'posts which are derogatory or aggressive towards trans people' are against talk guidelines and will be deleted if reported - phew!