More bashing of mumsnet

[Ikeasucks]

Why are orgs and businesses just capitulating to this bullying? mobile.twitter.com/MForstater/status/1265201870437519360

[Winesalot]

Getting back to the topic. Yes, there is plenty of discussion about gender issues on a women's forum because, surprisingly, women are not buying the line that there is "no impact" on women and children.

And at the moment, there is plenty actually happening. Including a rolling back of being called 'transphobic' for daring to question this line.

I, personally, like to point out when a thread is started in the main forum of MN about safe spaces, it is overwhelmingly for female safe spaces. Or about giving women the right to have spaces without males. The posters that support these types of threads when put in the main area of the forum are NOT regular posters in FWR boards.

Surely, that tells you that many, many women in general want and recognise women's needs for single sex spaces, the right to choose female health care professionals etc and it is not just a subject to be hidden away.

But, crack on and continue to label anyone who doesn't agree as 'phobic'. And I don't think you can pick and choose what is 'phobic' to suit your personal belief, that you see the need for safe spaces but you believe that people changing 'gender' do change sex for all intents and purposes otherwise.

[OvaHere]

Anyone who thinks women here are 'getting what they deserve' go read the post by a woman desperately in need of legal advice, found no support anywhere else and was pinning her hopes on today's Q&A.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/3920256-MNHQ-I-hope-you-are-going-to-release-your-own-statement-on-GMB-Union

It's a shameful disregard for the needs of working women during this pandemic.

[Thelnebriati]

Why shouldn't a women's union focus on women's rights? We still get sacked when our boss finds out we're pregnant, have to express breast milk in toilets, and get paid less. Those things aren't supposed to happen but they do.

[Farahilda]

I hope that the woman desperately in need of legal advice was told to contact CAB, not pin hopes on a web Q&A, as that is never away to get sufficiently detailed advice

[Winesalot]

I hope that the woman desperately in need of legal advice was told to contact CAB, not pin hopes on a web Q&A, as that is never away to get sufficiently detailed advice

No but it is a good place to start to find the resources you need. I contacted CAB when I was fired while pregnant and they told me there was nothing I could do. I have since found out there was plenty I could do. So, like always, it is very important to get as much help from as many sources as possible.

[RoyalCorgi]

Posters on Mumsnet aren't transphobic. MN has very strict rules forbidding "transphobic" comments.

But in any case, it shouldn't matter. We don't (yet) live in a totalitarian state where freedom of speech is banned. People ought to be free to say what they think. The idea that a trade union is refusing to answer questions from women about their rights because a few women on the same site express opinions the union disapproves of is horrifying. Does the GMB really believe that every woman on Mumsnet holds political views that the GMB approves of? Is everyone on Mumsnet appropriately pro-trade union, anti-Tory, pro the NHS? Obviously not. But the GMB has been persuaded by a bunch of women-hating male activists that the "transphobia" on Mumsnet is so bad that every Mumsnetter must be punished accordingly. Bad women. Naughty women.

This, incidentally, from a trade union whose general secretary recently had to resign over numerous accusations of sexual assault dating back many years. Doesn't that tell you exactly what their priorities are when it comes to women?

[SirVixofVixHall]

If you think that teenage girls should not have to undress in front of adult males with a penis , you are a “transphobe” it seems.
Some people feel more attracted to the clothing and social mores of the opposite sex. Feminists have been supporting non conformity for many decades.
That does not mean supporting fetishistic heterosexual males undressing next to girls and women.

[Ereshkigalangcleg]

This, incidentally, from a trade union whose general secretary recently had to resign over numerous accusations of sexual assault dating back many years. Doesn't that tell you exactly what their priorities are when it comes to women?

Quite. Oh but I'm sure that's fine. Noble GMB, they're always standing up for what's right.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

bunch of controversial political dialogue that IS on the fringes of what is considered generally acceptable I don't agree about that, Ollie. There hasn't been much opinion polling on this, but here's some from the end of 2018. fairplayforwomen.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/gender_recognition_act-1.pdf

One key finding was that 52% of people consider a person who was born male and has male genitalia but identifies as a woman to be a man.

More highlights:
13% agree with self-id for passports and birth certificates
19% of people consider a person who was born male and has male genitalia but identifies as a woman to be a woman.
13% think a person who was born male and has male genitalia but identifies as a woman should be able to compete in women's sports.
14% think a person who was born male and has male genitalia but identifies as a woman should be free to use female changing rooms
12% think a person who was born male and has male genitalia but identifies as a woman should be incarcerated in a women's prison

[Bananabixfloof]

it’s referring to all trans people as having a mental illness or a fetish that I’m objecting to

Up until very very recently it was classed as a mental illness in the DSMV.
It's been taken out now because of trans people saying they want it out, and now as it's not classed as a mental illness, there no longer has to be counselling.
I'm not terribly sure that in cases where surgery is going to happen that removing counselling for such life changing surgery is a good thing, but that's tough now.

And for the fetish, are you ok being the victim of the fetisher? Your ok with your daughter, mum, sister, aunt, grandmother being the unknowing and very likely unwilling victim?

[1forsorrow]

@Ereshkigalangcleg Absolutely. Fine with that. But people are allowed to disagree, as long as it's civil. It wouldn't be much of a talkboard if we didn't! My point was that I got alot of abuse because I agreed that the men I worked with could use the same loo as me. It was very unpleasant and I didn't come back here for months afterwards. I was new at the time, now I'd report it.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Oh, I should have said the poll was conducted by professional pollsters Populus and was paid for by crowdfunding. The project was the idea of Helen Staniland.

[thecatfromjapan]

I'm furious about this.

That's all I have to say, really.

It's disgraceful.

MN is far more than GC issues. And yet the GMB are cutting out access to a large group of women for this one, small segment - which means they are prioritising a small segment over speaking to women.

We're in a pandemic where a feature of the pandemic is that organising and communication has moved on-line.

If you want to speak to women, you need to use Mumsnet.

This is incredibly poor of the GMB.

And it tells you that women at the top of GMB do not feel empowered enough to say, 'Hang in a minute ...'

Now, why is that? Is it because women have faced historical oppression and this means that we are missing a whole generation of really empowered women at the top of organisations with the power to say, 'No'?

[CatandtheFiddle]

This site has a serious problem with MRAs who cant stand the thought of women standing up for their rights and saying no to them

Plus MRAs and TRAs who insist that any conversation about anything must centre them. Especially a conversation about other people's rights.

[justasking111]

This is so funny re the union I had the dubious pleasure of helping organise their conference. The conference manager was a woman, I had to attend all meetings with her because they were so handsy not a female amongst them, when they arrived they kept all the bars open in the hotels half the night, the female staff avoided them, they thought they were all adonis, not true. I was so disgusted because union fees were used to enable this bunch of misoynists have a great seaside freebee event.

[Bananabixfloof]

[email protected]


Feel free to email them. I already have.

[LemonadeAndDaisyChains]

It’s not bashing mumsnet to point out that the site has a serious transphobia problem.

This

[Thelnebriati]

Examples?

[ramseyspamsey]

I don't really understand the OP. Did the "Union for Mums" really capitulate? They just posted a statement that they support trans people... Or did they cancel the "partnership" or what?

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

One question I'd like answered is why there are so few transmen over the age of 30. If the recent huge increase is down to increased public acceptance of trans identities, where are the older females transitioning in response to lifelong gender dysphoria? Why are older trans people overwhelmingly male?

And conversely, why are younger trans people mostly female, when the direct opposite was true up to about ten years ago?

[CatandtheFiddle]

There is a lot tied up, not least politically, with whether or not gender dysphoria is, or should be, a mental health issue

Other body dysphorias ARE treated as mental health illnesses - major example is anorexia.

But - oh guess what? It's usually young women who suffer from anorexia. and everyone knows they're just hysterics anyway.

But men who think they're women inside or have a female brain are entirely rational, and don't need careful and compassionate care and regard?

[EnthusiasmIsDisturbed]

The problem for some is that females won’t be silenced by males any longer all of history we have been rarely has our voice been louder than males

On a site that is predominantly female our voices are so much louder and we won’t shut the fuck up

I have used the terms female/male before being told that women can be male too so my argument using women/men no longer stands x 1000

[thecatfromjapan]

justasking111

Yep.

We are so, so far from women actually, really having equal power.

And that, of course, is the problem and also why these tactics of silencing women work, and a vast part of what is actually going on here.

If a large group of women say, 'Not it should be something that is taken seriously.

It's not because, in reality, women don't have actual, real power.

The mind-bending part is when we are told that we are being ignored because we have too much power and are using it exploitatively.

It's mind-bending.

But this, really, says it all.

The GMB are actually walking away from reaching out to women, for a chimaera.

[Ereshkigalangcleg]

Spot on, thecatfromjapan

[popehilarious]

Cat
So, who are the transphobes?
The people who think gender dysphoria should be able to be classed as a mental disorder?
The people who think it is never a mental disorder?
Or the people who think any discussion of this subject should be shut down, no debate?