More bashing of mumsnet

[Ikeasucks]

Why are orgs and businesses just capitulating to this bullying? mobile.twitter.com/MForstater/status/1265201870437519360

[NotBadConsidering]

To me this would be the extreme (genocidal) end of transphobia.

But if you consider what might be on the “mild” end of transphobia by some people, I think with enough questioning everyone can be considered transphobic if you look hard enough.

For example, I cannot fathom how anyone can think it is fair that Laurel Hubbard, a forty something former male weightlifting champion, male offspring of a well known millionaire, beating an 18 year old female Samoan sexual assault survivor at weightlifting in her own country is fair. Deep down, everyone knows it’s unfair.

To express that unfairness is transphobic. To keep quiet about that unfairness is misogyny.

[Ereshkigalangcleg]

To express that unfairness is transphobic. To keep quiet about that unfairness is misogyny.

YY, Notbad. And to actually try to stop women speaking about that unfairness and calling it out is clearly misogyny.

[isabellerossignol]

And I don't see trans people as a uniquely oppressed group

Not only are they not uniquely oppressed, they're in many ways the most privileged group in society at present. No other group has captured politics and policy and education so quickly and forced the public to bend to their will, all within about five years. And to top it all off, the trans rights movement have conveniently painted any questions about it as hate speech. If that's not privileged I don't know what is.

[popehilarious]

I do believe there are many who suffer greatly due to being trans but these are likely to be (not always! Not all people etc) those people of colour or under-privileged in other ways as well. White middle class western transwomen, say, are in a better position to mitigate loss of privilege particularly in later life. The ones displaying extreme violence towards women and people of colour online seem to be white, western, and privileged, for example (in my opinion! It's my perception! I can still provide countless actual examples though!)
As we have seen, trans men are still often subject to violence by men.

[BatShite]

of course - but as you already know - I was not the one originally trying to assert any facts or universally held beliefs - I was challenging those posters who did. I cringe every time I see 'this is a fact', and it happens too often on the feminism threads.

So your poit was to..'prov' that no fact is ever a fact as someoe will disagree with it? Seems..odd. And not really the way to discern facts either, afteral, may may people believe the earth is flat. This means the earth being round is definitely not a fact?

[BatShite]

Ignore my many typos please, my keyboard is on the blink. Just found that thread of discussion..interesting and odd. As had dtold myself I would give up on this thread as its going in circles now which is pointless, but this is honestly the first time I have ever seen 'fact' be described as something that not one single peson disagrees with..

[BatShite]

As usual, I post before reading all the updates and see the flat earth route has been gone down. Was a bit too..eager to get into a convo with someone who apparently says there are no facts in the world, ever. As thats something I have never done before so was looking forward to it!

[BatShite]

And you wonder why some of us might show "fear directed at trans people

I woudn't say I was scared of transpeople. However many TRAs scare the absolute shit out of me. I have a transsexual cousin who is one of the kindest nicest people I have evr met. Shes still male though, and accepts that, as it seems many transsexual people do, it seems to be the new MRA breed of 'transgender' that have issues with reality and..with women in general. It is certainly not irrational to be scared of people who on multiple occasions have threateed me, dirctly or indirectly, and in one case even threatened to hut down my children, for stating that only female people give birth. From experience we know these people are not just all about threats and do carry it out too..but even just threatening to scare people is shite tbh.

Also, its not 'transpeople' to start with. Its males. I have yet to be threateed by someone claiming to be a transman. Oddly, the ones who threaten rape are males..the ones who threaten violence are males..who tend to be trying to scream at the world to accept them as females

[BatShite]

*To clarify, before NAMALT starts..I know this obviously. I did not mean I felt threatened by each and every male. But I do acknowledge stats, and unfortunately have no way of knowing which males are not a threat. Its easier to tell which ones are as they tend to be telling me they will strangle my kids outside school, or rape me while DH is at work, etc etc. But those not saying these things could still be bad too. Of course.

[attackedbycritters]

I do not believe that transpeople are the most priveldged people in society
I do think they can come in for a lot of fear and hate from people trying to coerce others into their way of life. I can imagine that a transwomen feels unwelcome in the gents as much as the ladies, as an example

What I object to is that the solution to that problem is not third spaces , nor is it change attitudes of men to be accepting of different gender identities , no it's bunk up women

I also would like t9 acknowledge that not all transwomen think like that at all , with some, possibly the majority, recognising the fact that separating facilities based on gender would increase the problems for women.

[Datun]

The point is, the government has issued a public consultation and questionnaire for anyone who wants to to complete it, in order give an opinion about the upcoming proposed change to the GRA.

Women discussing the issue of the transgender ideology, speculating about the possible reforms, the implications, what trans is, and why, is something our government has actually asked them to do.

Finding out homosexuality is no longer same-sex attraction according to Stonewall, that male rapists are assaulting women in female prisons, that men are completing in female sport, that the girl guides allow boys into girls' tents without their parents knowledge, that the CPS is issuing illegal advice to schools and that 11-year-olds are being put on untested drugs, are all issues that have arisen from people investigating the issue.

Disagreeing with any of this makes you transphobic.

The GMB have not bothered to lift a finger in due diligence, so all this needs is sunlight.

Let them explain why, in public. The entire issue just needs more light. That way, anyone who thinks concern with the above or discussion of the above is transphobic, is more than welcome to explain why.

And for the avoidance of doubt, a phobia is an irrational fear. Being frightened of a system which allows rapists access to incarcerated women as part of their sentence is about as rational a fear as you can have.

[bd67thSaysReinstateLangCleg]

Hi @Bizawit. It's clear that you haven't understood me.

I said: And you wonder why some of us might show "fear directed at trans people"?

The words in quotation marks were an attempt at a rhetorical device (the name of which eludes me) where the writer quotes part of a question verbatim in their answer. I made a mistake in the quoted text, it should have been "fear directed against trans people" but I was typing from memory and made a mistake.

I do have a fear of the set of (usually male) trans people who declare me unrapeable (this is a feminist term of art meaning "no act committed against a person or set of people, no matter how depraved or unwanted, can be deemed rape because the target has been declared sub-human"). This fear is not unreasonable. I certainly fear members of that set being alone in a loo, changing room, or dormitory with me. This fear is not unreasonable either. I have a fear of male people of any or no gender identity in intimate spaces with me and this declaration of war against "TERFs" aka "women who disagree with males in female spaces" has made that fear worse. This is not unreasonable.

This does not mean that I fear all trans people! Some trans people are female and I do not fear being raped by them, although I might be startled briefly if I initially misidentify them as male. Some male trans people, like Seven Hex, Fionne Orlander, and Miranda Yardley, have publicly committed to staying out of female spaces; I do not fear them because they respect our boundaries and I respect their courage in publicly taking what is currently a very unpopular stance. I have supported and will continue to support Fionne and Miranda's campaign to introduce single-occupant third spaces to ensure trans people's safety.

When I said "movement", I was not talking about all trans people but a particular, mostly-male, set associated with Antifa (sometimes known as "Pastel Bloc") and their slightly more respectable-looking allies (e.g. Adrian Harrop, he often lets the mask slip like when he doxxed DJ Lippy and tried to get her fired and his current efforts to get this site shut down, and student unionists who try to get academics like Louise Moody and Kathleen Stock fired) and it's disingenuous to pretend that I meant "all trans people" when I was quoting an article by a (self-identified?) Antifa member discussing the application of Antifa tactics against women who believe that sex is real.

As for your argument that this is just one person's writing: these tactics are not confined to the author I quoted. They have been used against Prof Stock and DJ Lippy. Someone urinated on Prof Stock's office door FFS. They were used against Maria Mac when she was punched at Speaker's Corner. They were used against Venice Allan, forcing her to cancel a children's clothes swap she was organising because, like any decent parent, she would not want to expose children to masked shouting protestors (and who lost out? children did, because making children miss out on needed clothes is totally social justice). They have been used against Helen Steel after she intervened to protect two women handing out flyers at a book fair. They have been used against Posie Parker, Lisa Muggeridge, Linda Bellos, Julie Bindel, the list goes on. This is not one person but an entire movement, it's just that this one person has codified the tactics and in doing so confirmed in writing what we already knew from observation.

[bd67thSaysReinstateLangCleg]

I do believe there are many who suffer greatly due to being trans but these are likely to be (not always! Not all people etc) those people of colour or under-privileged in other ways as well.

It's really disingenuous and racist and classist for white British transwomen who were probably entitled to free NHS treatment (even if they chose to go private) and have secure well-paid jobs (which I agree with BTW, no one should be fired for being trans) to use the murder rates of impoverished transwomen in South America using prostitution to raise funds for their transition to claim that white British transwomen are oppressed. The murder rate of prostituted women in South America is as high as that of prostituted transwomen (can't find where I read that right now, will try to dig it out and post it later) because the risk factor for that male violence is being prostituted, not being trans.

[Pertella]

I'm not afraid of transpeople.

I'm afraid that self ID opens the door to all the chancers, perverts and rapists who can claim to be trans and will be able to legitimately stroll into female only spaces

It really worries me that there are people so enmeshed in the ideology and dont think that self ID will be abused in this manner. They are either massively naive, just dont care, or are one of the aforementioned chances.

[bd67thSaysReinstateLangCleg]

Being frightened of a system which allows rapists access to incarcerated women as part of their sentence is about as rational a fear as you can have.

Relevant post from FWR, presented without comment.

PP1: "Do they put men with penises into women's prisons? I can cope with the idea of a transwoman who doesn't have a penis...but if there's a dick there? NOPE!"

PP2: "Yes. It happens all the time.

"Some prisons help solve this problem by... granting permission to allow women who requests it to take the morning after pill, if needed."

[Datun]

Ffs. Over 60% of women in prison have brain injuries due to abuse.

Let's just put them in there with sex offenders.

It's not some kind of awful Victorian spectacle.

[NotBadConsidering]

An example of the sort of “transphobia” Mumsnet is criticised for, highlighted by JK Rowling.

mobile.twitter.com/jk_rowling/status/1266392827652534272

JK Rowling accidentally included a quote from a news article in a tweet about the Ickabog. Apparently it’s transphobic to read about a violent transwoman who assaulted a woman in Hyde Park. The accidental paste shows JK Rowling is transphobic because why would anyone read about such a violent act? Why would Rowling have copied it? Where was she meant to be pasting it? It’s clear evidence of her transphobia apparently .

This exemplifies the same sort of criticism Mumsnet receives.

[Datun]

The number of furious men piling on her is extraordinary. She must not have an independent opinion about the transgender ideology.

In fact even using the words' transgender ideology' is now transphobic.

(Just so you all know).

[MoleSmokes]

"In fact even using the words' transgender ideology' is now transphobic."

Of course it is. We must not be allowed the words to correctly name the things that oppress us.

There are other words: "fundamentalist genderism", "revolutionary sex-denialism", "male chauvinism".

We haven't heard anything about "male chauvinism" for ages. It must not exist any more.

[DickKerrLadies]

I prefer using genderism to transgender ideology. Partly because to the general public, the words transsexual and transgender are synonymous and mean a person who has had genital surgery so people assume that if you criticise transgender ideology you are criticising transsexual people - hence the accusations of transphobia.

What I object to is the idea that gender identity - an indefinable internal feeling that relies heavily on stereotype - rather than sex is what determines whether a person is a man or a woman. I object to crime and health statistics using gender identity rather than sex. I object to lesbians being told that their sexuality should be based on gender identity rather than sex.

These aren't just fringe opinions of some gobshites on twitter - these are the opinions of charities receiving millions in funding and pushing these opinions onto school children.