Child left for 45 mins in own poo??

[ShallallalAa]

My dc aged 4 was left for 45 mins at school having pooed herself (I am a first response worker BTW and dp was 2 hours away)
She was left in the loo covered in her own poo. I left immediately and got there and left colleagues on the ward.
Should she have been changed or helped to clean herself up by a staff member?
She was extremely distressed by the time I got there.

@LemonPudding talking them through changing themselves is still dealing with it though maybe not good enough with a 3 year old.
Presumably as an early years teacher you’d have been ashamed of yourself if you left a little 4 year old sitting in their own poo for 45 minutes instead of helping her.

Even further, regarding changing rooms as someone asserted. You need some common sense. I’ve been in the boys before to break up a fight between naked boys. I can hardly tell a parent that I risk assessed it was better their child needed stitches and had a broken nose because they were naked and I couldn’t intervene in a changing room dispute. Yes you need to take precautions, but it’s all about balancing risk and need.

It really depends on the situation. We are told that we couldn't help change a child by ourselves there would have to be 2 members of staff of the same gender/sex as the child at all times. Even then we are told that we would have to have consent from the parent to change the child.

No it really doesn't. Any person working with children should be doing whatever their needs are. You cannot be looking after 4 yr olds and not giving them the care that they need. Any person who works in a setting with children and doesn't attend to their needs should not be working in that profession. There is absolutely no excuse whatsoever to be leaving a 4 yr old in soiled clothes.

Surely this is directly connected with coronavirus. And avoiding such close contact.
In normal times child would’ve been helped.

At the school I work out we are not allowed to do anything other than ring the parent.

@nokidshere if you don't have another member of staff present or have no permission from parent it is not as simple as just doing it. Have you read recent safeguarding laws, have you attended recent trainings etc. Unfortunately some parents do not want teachers changing their children and have escalated in the past even when 2 members of staff were there etc.

I do feel 45 mins is a very very long time however.

And the OP's post doesn't say she was left alone.

Sounds like there are lots of different policies at different schools. I used to work in a primary school and we were categorically told not to ever hug any child. However some staff did when they felt it was appropriate.

I personally wouldn't be able to not help a distressed 4 year old. Poor thing. I would raise it with the school and see what they say.

I'd expect them to at least give the kid a plastic bag, wipes and some lost property clothes and take them to the toilets.

I remember signing consent forms for my children to be assisted by staff in such circumstances. I thought these were given to parents at the start of the school year in an effort to prevent distress to young children while still safe guarding staff.

Than your school really should be educating themselves of the ERIC guidelines Someone.

Schools really shouldn't have "no touch" policies - that in itself is a safeguarding issue.

As OP hasn't come back, we don't know the full facts and the details requested by some here.

It's not the law. How do people think a disabled child get a education? How would a child in wheelchair get a education? Children who are cognitively unable to use the toilet?

just doing it. Have you read recent safeguarding laws, have you attended recent trainings etc. Unfortunately some parents do not want teachers changing their children and have escalated in the past even when 2 members of staff were there etc.

Ive worked in childcare with under 8s for over 40yrs. I have yet to see a law that says it's ok to leave a child sitting in excrement for 45 minutes, nor are there any safeguarding rules that say the same. I have also never, and I mean never, met a family who asked the person caring for their child not to change them.

sadly the teacher would have been prevented by law from helping your daughter remove her underwear.

Totally untrue

Was the teacher male?
I'd expect there would be a massive outcry if a male teacher cleaned up a 4yr old girl.
Why? Because people are morons.

I used to be an early years TA. We would change children fairly regularly but there had to be a second adult present for safeguarding reasons if we had to actively help them instead of just providing wipes and clean clothes so they could do it themselves.

I'm not sure how this is going to work with 'bubbles' of 15 children and one adult, since you can't leave the other 14 unsupervised while helping one with toileting. Regardless, the solution can't be to leave children sitting in soiled clothes until their parents arrive. That's ethically indefensible.

Even in the current situation this is disgusting.

We would change children fairly regularly but there had to be a second adult present for safeguarding reasons if we had to actively

There doesn't 'have to be'. Schools use this nonsense all the time when what they are actually saying is 'we are wary of getting accused of something' which is fair enough, but don't pretend it's something that is written in stone because it's not.

There are millions of childcare settings where the child is one on one with an adult. What do you think they do?

I once collected one of my boys from primary school, and noticed he was wearing a completely different set of clothes. Pants included (lovely lacey girl pants!)

His poo-stained clothes were in a plastic bag. No questions asked (much). Just a glance, wince, eye-roll, nod and sigh between me and the teacher... (+ some vague muttering about a toilet incident, which apparently, after quizzing my boy at home, involved a mass toiket paper brawl in the boys' loo)

Was I shocked? No. I believe the staff did their best in adverse circumstances.
Would things have been handled differently in "post-covid" world. Possibly...

I would have a calm chat or email with the teacher or head for their reasoning behind what has happened. Once you have all the information, because it could be that things are different right now in your daughter’s school due to the pandemic, you can then decide if you will take any further action or if it they did do the right thing under the circumstances and whether there is anything you can do for future to help (eg provide wet wipes and a change of clothes).

70% of our children are not toilet trained when they start school age 3 years 3 months upwards

Of course schools change young children.

@LemonPudding talking them through changing themselves is still dealing with it hmm though maybe not good enough with a 3 year old.
Presumably as an early years teacher you’d have been ashamed of yourself if you left a little 4 year old sitting in their own poo for 45 minutes instead of helping her.

I taught infants so the youngest would have been 4. This was back in the 70s when things were a lot different. If children weren't potty trained the head could refuse entry to school and he did. He would phone the parents to come and deal with accidents. We had one teacher per class and the toilets were the other side of the playground so I couldn't have assisted a child, even if we were allowed to. I couldn't have left the other 30+ to their own devices. TAs were few and far between then. One teacher per class and that was it.

This teacher may have been on her own. So much condemnation when we don't even know the facts.