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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Child left for 45 mins in own poo??

388 replies

ShallallalAa · 23/05/2020 12:05

My dc aged 4 was left for 45 mins at school having pooed herself (I am a first response worker BTW and dp was 2 hours away)
She was left in the loo covered in her own poo. I left immediately and got there and left colleagues on the ward.
Should she have been changed or helped to clean herself up by a staff member?
She was extremely distressed by the time I got there.

OP posts:
FlamingoAndJohn · 23/05/2020 12:20

Has this happened now?
Could it be due to teachers not having PPE and not wanting to get too close?

SandieCheeks · 23/05/2020 12:22

Lots of 3 and 4 year olds, and even some 5 year olds, still have accidents occasionally. It doesn't suggest a "medical problem".

If schools take early years children they must be prepared to care for them.

LovingLola · 23/05/2020 12:22

What did the teacher say when you arrived? Were you told why she was left like that?

Sodamncold · 23/05/2020 12:23

* ‘Intimate care may be defined as an activity required to meet the personal care needs of each individual child in partnership with the parent, carer and the child.’ (9.26, ACPC Regional Policy and Procedures). In school, this may occur on a regular basis or during a one-off incident*

If this hasn’t happened before and you’ve not discussed with the school that it is a possibility then they would not have been able to help undressing your child

If you have met with the school and said your child was still having accidents and to agree and approach then they would have been able to assist

However without prior agreement they were not permitted to undress your child

Youngatheart00 · 23/05/2020 12:25

@allfalldown47 huh? Puzzled by your response. I was trying to be helpful!!! Suggesting if a 4yo is regularly having fecal incontinence maybe there is an underlying problem that could be helped with treatment? I have inflammatory bowel disease myself and it started as a child.

SandieCheeks · 23/05/2020 12:26

@Sodamncold "However without prior agreement they were not permitted to undress your child"
Where are you getting this from?
Anyway, a 4 year old can undress themselves with adult assistance.

allfalldown47 · 23/05/2020 12:27

@Youngatheart00 where did op mention regular accidents? Your response offered no help to op.

NameChange84 · 23/05/2020 12:29

There’s no law against helping a child with accidents FFS. Please don’t spread misinformation.

OP, the school should have a Continence Policy. Whilst it is unfair to expect teachers to toilet train children, accidents do happen and children of a young age will need help as and when it happens.

However, we are in an unprecedented situation at the moment and the school may have a policy re social distancing which prevented the teacher from giving hands on care. For example, if a child was choking or arrested of course there is a risk to life so the child would be aided physically but in a “minor” incident such as this which is unpleasant for the child, the risk to the staff member might be seen as greater in the current circumstances which might be why you were called to deal with this.

I do accept it was unpleasant and humiliating for your child but don’t go in all guns blazing, as much as you may want to. Ask for policies and facts and perhaps outline how you would hope future incidents would be dealt with. Hopefully this is a one off though.

When I was working with young children in an SEN setting where the policy was two adults to clean up a child and it wasn’t always possible straight away, parents were very helpful in helping their children to deal with continence problems fairly independently (for their own dignity mainly). They’d send their children in with a pack of wipes and a few pairs of pull ups as well as clean trousers. It might be a good idea, if this is a frequent occurrence to provide a little clean up pack and show dd how to use it as best as she can. Ok, her own attempt at clean up might not have been great as she’s only 4 but she might have been able to feel a little more comfortable and less upset in the space between the accident and you arriving.

Insideallday · 23/05/2020 12:29

@MrsJoshNavidi

  • Was she refused permission to go to the toilet? Was she too frightened/embarrassed to ask? Was she being bullied? Medical issues not being catered for*

Why is your response looking to find blame, as others have said maybe the child just had an accident.

SandieCheeks · 23/05/2020 12:29

If a school cannot care for children safely because they don't have sufficient staff, or don't have sufficient PPE, then they shouldn't be opening.

NameChange84 · 23/05/2020 12:30

Also if it is a regular occurrence it should be documented in your dd’s IHCP.

Grasspigeons · 23/05/2020 12:32

That sounds very upsetting. Very often at school one member of staff would help a child clean up and change, with another member of staff near by (eg in sight line of the adult assisting) its very likely your school has an intimate care policy or set of guidelines you coukd ask to see. I suspect this is a not enough staff on site issue. The only other thing is schools have struggled to get hold of disposable gloves and aprons as so many suppliers are saying their products are diverted to the NHS.

Youngatheart00 · 23/05/2020 12:32

@allfalldown47 wow, you talk about dealing with situations ‘with kindness’ but that clearly doesn’t apply to your responses on here.

OP asked for opinions and advice. It’s up to her to judge what is helpful or not. My post was motivated by concern on the basis it would obviously be much better for the child (and OP) if any underlying condition was investigated or ruled out, either way reducing the chances of such a horrible situation occurring again.

Gallacia · 23/05/2020 12:32

That's terrible, I thought teachers could help a child in that situation??

Bookoffacts · 23/05/2020 12:32

Contact the governors and local council of the school to complain.
Or complain to ofsted.

StayinginSummer · 23/05/2020 12:33

I don’t understand. My DS is special needs and would need nappy changes at that age at special school. Staff would have to do this alone due to numbers.

minisoksmakehardwork · 23/05/2020 12:35

I am sure under normal circumstances your DD would have been helped to clean up and change into PE kit. But right now, social distancing is driving many school policies from asking them to take care of their own cuts to parents being called if they cannot. Covid-19 has likely driven this particular experience so check what guidance was issued to you when you sent you child to school for key-worker care.

VickyEadieofThigh · 23/05/2020 12:36

Contact the governors and local council of the school to complain. Or complain to ofsted.

No, they'll just send it back to the parent to go through the school's complaints policy.

First of all, write to the headteacher, describe your version of events and ask for an inquiry into how and why this happened.

If you're not satisfied (there might be a unique reason why the DC had to wait - for example, a staff shortage that day which meant the teacher in charge could not leave the other children), then ask for the complaints policy and use it.

WhoCaresAnyway95 · 23/05/2020 12:38

It's due to the covid-19. My daughter's school have sent an email out this week stating if my child should soil herself or fall and hurt herself she will be placed in a 'waiting area' until I collect her. My daughter doesn't soil herself at all but I'm sorry if she did and she was left for any amount of time I would definatley be making a complaint. Why are schools planning to 're open if this is what it's going to be like. This isn't the child's fault btw accidents happen!

allfalldown47 · 23/05/2020 12:40

Good grief, @Youngatheart00 I merely suggested that the responses that implied that this was a bowel problem issue, were both unhelpful and not at all related to op's original post.
Did op ask 'my dd was left after a toilet accident, do you think she has bowel problems' No, she clearly didn't.
You haven't offered any response to the original op at all, which as I pointed out, isn't helpful. How is that unkind? Hmm

rwalker · 23/05/2020 12:42

I was under the impression that there had to be 2 staff members when doing personal care.
Most school only have a few staff in most of then off

Idontbelieveit12 · 23/05/2020 12:43

That is so bad Sad I work in a preschool and deal with this quite often. The children are often mortified, we don’t make a big deal and clean them up quick. Is it because of coronavirus do you think? I can’t imagine why teachers would think this ok.

allfalldown47 · 23/05/2020 12:43

@WhoCaresAnyway95 thats sad to hear. My school has supplied us with ppe for wearing when dealing with first aid or toileting issues.
I would feel so uncomfortable/sad just sending a child to a 'waiting area'

OhArsebags · 23/05/2020 12:43

No child should be left like that.

I used to be a school welfare officer - a child that soiled themselves would be brought to me in welfare and I’d help them to get change into spare underwear we had in the toilets - only stipulation was that I’d go and get someone from the office to supervise so I wasn’t undressing a child alone.

cjm10979 · 23/05/2020 12:43

I've had this problem in the past. It's sad that so many teachers and schools/nurseries are ignorant of the law.

This doc sets this situation straight:

www.eric.org.uk/Handlers/Download.ashx?IDMF=7cf8f9f4-6668-46de-a38c-4d74c2ce8925

What happened to your child is on page 15. I would be writing a complaint referencing this doc. Additionally, on page 7 one of the main recommendations is that Parents should
not be expected to go and collect the child.