Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

Child left for 45 mins in own poo??

388 replies

ShallallalAa · 23/05/2020 12:05

My dc aged 4 was left for 45 mins at school having pooed herself (I am a first response worker BTW and dp was 2 hours away)
She was left in the loo covered in her own poo. I left immediately and got there and left colleagues on the ward.
Should she have been changed or helped to clean herself up by a staff member?
She was extremely distressed by the time I got there.

OP posts:
nokidshere · 23/05/2020 14:10

I taught infants so the youngest would have been 4. This was back in the 70s when things were a lot different. If children weren't potty trained the head could refuse entry to school and he did. He would phone the parents to come and deal with accidents. We had one teacher per class and the toilets were the other side of the playground so I couldn't have assisted a child, even if we were allowed to. I couldn't have left the other 30+ to their own devices. TAs were few and far between then. One teacher per class and that was it.

None of the schools, or indeed other establishments, I worked in in the 70s had any such rules.

loutypips · 23/05/2020 14:11

How can a teacher change a child whilst socially distancing themselves? They can't. Also, they will not have enough staff to chaperone or be able to leave the class unattended whilst they clean up a child who has had an accident.

If you want to send kids back to school whilst the social distancing measures are in place then this is what you have to expect. Is it wrong? Definitely. But what choice do schools have? They are being forced to open, and need to keep both staff and students free from COVID. This will be happening more often unfortunately.

nokidshere · 23/05/2020 14:15

How can a teacher change a child whilst socially distancing themselves? They can't. Also, they will not have enough staff to chaperone or be able to leave the class unattended whilst they clean up a child who has had an accident.

Teachers, ta's, nursery workers, hospital workers, anyone who works with small children will not be able to socially distance all the time. That does not mean they can just abdicate the responsibility and not attend to the children, that would be ridiculous.

That's why they need to make sure that these things are in place ASAP for the protection of both staff and children.

But they cannot just say 'I can't do it'.

grumpyorange · 23/05/2020 14:16

@nokidshere as I said 45 mins is extreme. However safeguarding policies state that 2 adults of the same sex should be present at all times. We have also been told that we must ring the parents for consent and explaining what we are doing.

Even when we have all these things we've had incidences where the child has refused because 'mummy says I shouldn't let anyone do this' we can't force the child to cooperate however this is a rare occurrence.

As OP has not come back and addressed any of the questions asked you cannot be aware of what happened!

Normal procedure is as follows (over all the schools I've worked at and voluntary societies)

  • 2 members of staff of the same sex as child present.
  • phone parent for consent and to make them aware of the situation
  • explain to child what is happening and what you are going to do make sure they are aware of what is happening at all times.
  • after completion both members of staff sign to say they were present and this form is kept for a set period of time (this has varied depending on organisation or school)
x2boys · 23/05/2020 14:18

I went to primary school in the 70,s and 80,s I vividly remember a boy in my reception class having " an accident " and being washed down in a yellow bucket there were n o other kids there I think it was home time ,I also remember a friend of mine being whisked away to be changed after having wet her self ,.

pussycatinboots · 23/05/2020 14:18

@MNHQ as the OP can't be bothered to come back, is it remotely possible this is a weird "poo troll" thread?

nokidshere · 23/05/2020 14:19

@nokidshere as I said 45 mins is extreme. However safeguarding policies state that 2 adults of the same sex should be present at all times. We have also been told that we must ring the parents for consent and explaining what we are doing.

Safeguarding policies are not law. What happens if you can't get hold of the parent? What happens if the child is unable to understand your explanations and reasoning? What happens if it's a baby or a child with disabilities.

Surely you can see that just because that's what you do (and in my opinion it's completely wrong) doesn't mean that you can just say 'oh sorry, we can't follow our policy therefore I will do nothing at all'?

Cosyblanky · 23/05/2020 14:20

I've worked in loads of schools and children are always cleaned up and changed after an accident. You just follow the procedure. In most schools the procedure is; tell a colleague what your doing, If poss the door is left open and it's recorded. Some schools also phone the parent during the day so they are informed, others inform at home time.

LemonPudding · 23/05/2020 14:20

None of the schools, or indeed other establishments, I worked in in the 70s had any such rules.

How odd. It was the norm in these parts.

BlueBooby · 23/05/2020 14:21

When my DD was in reception (that's the year between nursery and year 1 so age 3-4) she had a couple of accidents. The school always helped her clean up and put her in clean clothes. They'd let me know what happened as they handed over a carrier bag with her dirty clothes in, but that was it.

Perhaps in this case it was a covid related thing, but am surprised just how many on this thread say their schools will not allow their teachers to help a child. Especially in the early years.

grumpyorange · 23/05/2020 14:23

@nokidshere Safeguarding policies are not law. What happens if you can't get hold of the parent? What happens if the child is unable to understand your explanations and reasoning? What happens if it's a baby or a child with disabilities.

Baby/disabled children are different. We have written consent stating that we are allowed to do it without first ringing the parents. It's absurd to even use them as an example as of course babies and disabled children are different.

In the case that we haven't been able to get hold of the parent we then move onto emergency contacts. If DD was as upset as OP says she would've understood the idea of being changed as most 3/4 year old would.

Ihaveoflate · 23/05/2020 14:26

I don’t know all the details so I wouldn’t want to pass judgement on the individual teacher, but I was a year 1 teacher and personally cleaned up a little boy who had made quite a mess of himself. It was at lunchtime, so I didn’t have a class to supervise, which maybe this teacher did.

It wouldn’t have mattered to me what the guidance was - I simply could not have left a small child in their own mess for any length of time. It lacks compassion if nothing else and doesn’t bode well for future harmonious relations between school and parents.

Original poster
ShallallalAa · 23/05/2020 14:27

Hi sorry no I'm not at all a weird poo troll.

Dd was OK - just the

OP posts:
skinnyhotchoc · 23/05/2020 14:27

My dd 6 has about two accidents a year. She has problems with her bowels and sometimes doesn't quite make it especially if it's lunchtime. She has always been helped and had a new change of underwear given to her. This isn't right. Could it be something to do with the current situation?

Bluebooby · 23/05/2020 14:27

@grumpyorange

At my dd's school, they don't call the parents if the child has an accident (perhaps they would for older ones, I don't know about that). And I don't think they need two members of staff present either, at least that didn't appear to be what happened when my dd was helped.

I used to volunteer at the school and remember once a little boy calling the class teacher over because he was having difficulty in the bathroom. She didn't get another member staff to assist with her - I don't know if that could have been because I was within earshot so perhaps counted as the second person - but I don't think so.

nokidshere · 23/05/2020 14:29

@grumpyorange so the whole time you are on the phone trying Tom get hold of someone a child is sitting in soiled clothes? Surely you can see how ridiculous that is?

When you are working with young children your brief is to meet the needs of that child, whatever those needs are. Of course you must do it with respect and dignity, and above all with care, but there is no excuse whatsoever for leaving a child in soiled clothes whilst you sort out your paperwork!

Original poster
ShallallalAa · 23/05/2020 14:29

Sorry screen froze!
Really appreciate all the info.

Still not really sure what to do - it feels so wrong but I don't want to make a fuss during such difficult times!

OP posts:
LovingLola · 23/05/2020 14:30

But what happened??
What were the circumstances of her being left ?

grumpyorange · 23/05/2020 14:31

@Bluebooby in lots of nursery's now the toilet main door is within the site and earshot of the main rooms so staff members can see and hear what is happening.

Schools may operate differently to one another but we can't be sure what OPs schools policy is so can't really pass judgement till then.

When I was looking for a nursery for DS recently they went to great lengths to explain safeguarding around toilets and changing etc even though he would only be 1

Original poster
ShallallalAa · 23/05/2020 14:31

I think it lacks basic humanity Sad

OP posts:
Tink2007 · 23/05/2020 14:31

No, she shouldn’t have been left like it.

To safeguard all, my school has a policy of two members of staff have to be in the room if such an issue occurs and a child needs changing.

justasking111 · 23/05/2020 14:31

At our school nursery through to yr 6. They occasionally ask for spare clothes to keep in a box, we all know they are for kids that have accidents. No fuss made, dirty clothes, bagged and handed over to parents, kids come out in different clothes, no biggie.

Original poster
ShallallalAa · 23/05/2020 14:32

She soiled herself ie didn't get to the loo in time. And was left in the loo crying for 45 minutes.

OP posts:
skinnyhotchoc · 23/05/2020 14:34

@ShallallalAa poor little thing. What a shame!

LovingLola · 23/05/2020 14:35

That’s awful.
Poor little girl.