Child left for 45 mins in own poo??

[ShallallalAa]

My dc aged 4 was left for 45 mins at school having pooed herself (I am a first response worker BTW and dp was 2 hours away)
She was left in the loo covered in her own poo. I left immediately and got there and left colleagues on the ward.
Should she have been changed or helped to clean herself up by a staff member?
She was extremely distressed by the time I got there.

I wonder if it’s because of staffing and the pandemic? If there’s only one member of staff around they couldn’t leave the other children unsupervised to clean up your DD so had to call you instead?

I think given the circumstances I would let it go, as they’re making parents aware that if there’s any issues at all the children must be collected immediately its fair enough. It’s not really schooling at the moment, it’s basically emergency childcare.

4 year olds have accidents-it’s not uncommon! She should have been helped. Even if the person in charge couldn’t get too close, they could have told her what to do-take off pants, put them in a bag, wipe yourself etc. It’s appalling this happened. Hopefully never again.

My first thought would be the pandemic.

Had this occurred to you, Op?

My son is in school. He still has personal care provided by staff. Any 4 year old can have an accident so if 4 year olds are going to be in school there needs to be a plan for dealing with it that doesn't involve a child sitting in it until a parent arrives.

@HoppingPavlova you are ignorant of the rules.

Whether a child has an accident once or multiple times due to medical issues/disability is irrelvant.

You need to read this:
www.eric.org.uk/Handlers/Download.ashx?IDMF=7cf8f9f4-6668-46de-a38c-4d74c2ce8925

If you are senior leadership in the school you should be training your teachers using this document. If you are not in Senior Leadership you should show it to them and get them to implement it.

Shes a teacher, her job isn't to change students or clean up their shit (literally)

Werk if somebody chooses to work in early years ,than the odd accident is to be expected ,and whilst it isn't pleasant small children have accidents

Surely the correct procedure (even when its not during a pandemic) is for someone to go and get your child's spare pants/wipes/nappy bags etc from her bag and to (from a distance) talk her through what she needed to do - i.e. take dirty pants off and pop in bag, now clean yourself up with the wipes and pop the dirty ones in bag, now put on your clean pants. It might be worth practising wiping with your DD at home, and making sure she knows where her spare pants and wipes etc are.

I wouldn’t expect teachers to be cleaning up pooey children. They have children to teach.

There was a pp who put their schools website link on here where it stated that they wouldn't be able to assist a child who had a fall, or an accident such as a bathroom incident. They would ask the child to do it themselves and if that child wasn't able to do it themselves, they would call the parents to come and assist the child.

These were the measures that school had put in place to protect its staff. I would assume that's what is happening at your child's school OP.

Did she have clothes to change into?
Is this something that regularly happens?
Was it diarrhoea?

If it's diarrhoea and the teacher didn't have the correct PPE and correct means of soiled waste disposal then surely it's safer for everyone if the diarrhoea is contained in her clothes than to risk exposing everyone, especially given that she is a frontline worker's child and therefore the risk of infection is likely high.

If it's a regular occurrence then as PP's have said, maybe teaching her how to clean herself up would help. Putting a pack of wet wipes in her bag, a spare bag of clothes and a bag for soiled clothing.

And if she didn't have spare clothes then the teacher would've had nothing to put her in.
Also depends on staff ratio as I would not do any personal care on a child without another adult present. If there's not enough staff then the best case is to call you for you to deal with it.

@blue25 if they don’t want to deal with children having accidents, they shouldn’t be teaching early years. This is what the job entails.

You would just leave a child soiled would you blue?Nice 🙄

At the moment schools are running on skeleton staff. The teacher wouldn't be able to leave the class to attend to your child

I assume it’s down to social distancing but in any case, I wouldn’t expect a teacher to clean up the poo of a child who must be almost 5 years old . Presumably in normal circumstances the child would be helped by a non-teaching member of staff?

@diddl would it also be ok for nursery staff to choose not to help a child due to the pandemic?

It comes back to - if the setting is open (whether a nursery, mainstream school or special school) they must provide adequate care. If they can’t do that, whether due to unsafe staffing levels or lack of ppe, they shouldn’t be open.
You can’t open then choose not to do the basics. We’re talking about a 4 year old.

I’m a teacher. We’d have taken her to the disabled toilet, I’d have got another member of staff from the office or somewhere to be in eyesight. I’d have stood at the door and talked her though a clean up, passing a bag for soiled items and fresh clothes to put on. I’d have talked her through kindly how to clean and passed wet towels etc. If it was a really messy one we’d have taken her to the shower we have. If she had no capability of doing this I’d have got your permission to clean her and done so with another staff member being there.
It happens occasionally with small children, it’s part of working with little ones.
I’ve seen bright yr 5 children suddenly caught out even, I’ve helped them hide it from their peers and being kind because I know the mortification they’d feel. Kids don’t poo themselves and let their peers smell it for fun, it’s embarrassing.
If it was a reoccurring issue we’d put a care plan in case with you.

Regarding containment we’d bag and knot the clothes and wash our hands really well after. There’s always a way of getting staff together, even if the other person is office/ cleaning etc. No school could be open witht hat few staff that it’d go out of ratio to clean a child. Even if we had to get the rest out in the playground we’d manage

@diddl since op said she's a first responder and left colleagues on the ward she probably knows all about the pandemic.
It's not an excuse to leave a small child covered in shit.

if they don’t want to deal with children having accidents, they shouldn’t be teaching early years. This is what the job entails.

I taught early years for quite a while and I never once changed a child. We were told to talk them through changing themselves. Our HT was very firm that we were not to do it.

sadly the teacher would have been prevented by law from helping your daughter remove her underwear.

There is no law which states a teacher or other adult in a caring profession shouldn't help a child who needs help.

at 4 years old children are going to have accidents. The average age for full control of all bladder and bowel function is 7.
There are 2 sides to this, the teacher that has to protect themselves against potential allegations, there should have been a support worker and procedures in place with permissions for them to assist (how do you think nurseries or special need schools get around these issues).
Children need support.
Its particularly difficult right now with different staffing, so even if there are procedures in place it wont mean a thing.
45 minutes is definitely too long for a 4 year old and quite traumatic. I would definitely be speaking to the school to agree what will happen in the future. In the mean time perhaps you can help your daughter by creating a toilet schedule so she empties her bowels daily at home after school where shes more comfortable and you are there to provide consistency.

It really depends on the situation. We are told that we couldn't help change a child by ourselves there would have to be 2 members of staff of the same gender/sex as the child at all times. Even then we are told that we would have to have consent from the parent to change the child.

Have you asked why she wasn't changed before you got there? Has this happened before?

If a school or any organisation can’t attend to one child in a 45min period then they need to close. It’s a serious safe guarding issue. They shouldn’t be so short one adult cannot move around if needed.

It’s appalling this was done to your daughter and she must have been so upset.

I wouldn’t leave an adult who was in this situation and couldn’t clear themselves up. It’s inhumane.

Absolutely complain