Child left for 45 mins in own poo??

[ShallallalAa]

My dc aged 4 was left for 45 mins at school having pooed herself (I am a first response worker BTW and dp was 2 hours away)
She was left in the loo covered in her own poo. I left immediately and got there and left colleagues on the ward.
Should she have been changed or helped to clean herself up by a staff member?
She was extremely distressed by the time I got there.

Eh? I'm a TA (in Scotland) and have cleaned up children on numerous occasions. It would go against my nature completely to leave a child in that state, and I wouldn't care what any law said!
YANBU.

@x2boys I would expect the child to have waited until I arrived to clean it up. It's uncomfortable yes but not life threatening

Well.the ERIC guidelines suggest that would be neglectful on the schools behalf @wewillmeetagain.

I'm not a teacher and I don't pretend to know and protocols or guidelines. Are these ERIC guidelines advisory or legal requirements?

They are advisory however they are a recognised body , and they say leaving children soiled or wet whilst waiting for a parent to come could be considered tantamount to abuse.

The OP said the child refused to come out & has not given any other information.
@wewillmeetagain I agree , with a NT child at age 4 they are able to try to clean themselves up or to wait . It’s not the end of the world.

I wouldn’t expect a teacher to clean my child .

@x2boys does that mean that it could be considered abuse should a parent complain? I honestly cannot see how that could be considered abuse, yes leaving a child like that all day is abuse but for less than an hour while they wait for a parent is hardly abuse!

@x2boys the problem is ERIC may say leaving a child soiled or wet is tantamount to abuse, however touching someone without consent is also considered abuse and furthermore can leave us open to prosecution. This is why we are not allowed to change a child without permission from the parent and child, and without another adult there (protection for the child and member of staff).
When doing a Red Cross first aid course we were even told there the when administering first aid we must first obtain verbal consent or we can be prosecuted. It isn’t as simple as saying put the needs of the child first. What about the needs of the staff member’s children if the member of staff loses their job because in good faith they chose the needs of the child over the school’s policy?

In this case we do not know if the child withdrew consent. We do not know if the child had clothes to be changed into.

On another thread a mum with a baby asked when her baby had pooped whilst asleep, can I leave baby until he wakes to change him. The universal answer was no he will end up with a sore bottom/rash. So why is it ok when they are 4. Why is it ok for a child to stand there in its own mess until a parent arrives to tick some box.

It is fucking pathetic though wewillmeetagain, as a professional primary school staff.

Masks can be bought online, marigolds from a shop if the main concern is covid and there is no/little ppe, and then make sure you follow hygiene procedures.

There appears to be a severe lack of pragmatism in schools these days

And lemonpudding - your school in the 70s is not a) a shining beacon of virtue b) indicative of all schools in the 70s or since

Phone call at work; Hello it's school, your child has had an accident, are you ok for us to clean him and change him?
Hello it's school, your child has had an accident, if you don't mind we will leave him sitting in shit until you arrive. How long before you can get here?
Um - I know what my answer would be. Why why why would you NOT expect a school to clean up your child. It's the decent thing for them to do. I would be livid if they left my child like the op suggested!
When my little boy had an accident (see my earlier message) they didn't do a great job, but they made sure he was clean and dry, I didn't get a phone call.
Working parents don't alway work close to school and can't be on call to deal with little accidents. Whilst in the care of the school the child is their responsibility. I'm utterly shocked by the responses on here from so many so called teacher's. I wouldn't be surprised if some are not teachers or TA at all, they just want the argument! Maybe some would reconsider this argument if they were actually parents.

We do clean our children. We gain consent before the children start with us. However, if a child says “no!” we have to stop.

Instead of getting worked up about staff following policies, why not take a look at why policies are written the way they are? We unfortunately live in a culture where people are only too happy to throw someone under the bus for the sake of easy money.

I wouldn't have expected a teacher to clean up poo. The child could have been given a damp cloth and a change of underwear. Till the parent arrived to do a proper clean up.

@justasking111 firstly they are completely different scenarios. Of course you can change your own baby no problem at all.

Some parents do not appreciate it if you were to go near their child's genitals to clean them up. As I've said countless times OP needs to dig out the paperwork and see what she signed for. In addition she needs to talk to the school!

Also it is clear from OPs updates that her child refused to let the teacher help. In that case and your child came out of school and said to you I told Miss Justasking not to touch me and she took off my pants would you be shocked? Would you demand an explanation? Would you be annoyed that your child was undressed against their will?

Teachers can and have lost their jobs over cleaning up a child is that fair?

I absolutely wouldn’t clean up a child without another member of staff and only if we were both the same sex as the dc in question. If there were only 3 then we possibly couldn’t change them. Most schools round here are 6 to a staff member.
A male NQT teacher I met during my PGCE was struck off because he changed and cleaned A child with a female TA who had soiled herself but in trying to clear up wiped diarrhoea from back to front and made a right mess over Her self and uniform. He was 25, had daughters who were 6, 3 &1. He lost absolutely everything

ShutUpaYourFace
Most people who have a longer term track record of posting on education threads have been giving helpful and reasonable advice on this thread (eg check personal care policy, find out what the policy is for intimate care during Covid, was their approach communicated to parents, it's standard safeguarding to have two adults present for intimate care in schools, certain things sound complaint worthy etc)

My scepticism comes from posters that don't frequent education threads a lot and are full of misinformation.

@bloodyhellsbellsx

EXACTLY!!!

@IHateCoronavirus oh there’s some sick fuxkwits out there!

OP did you contact the school today to make an appointment to get further details of their policies and their side of the story?

I know in my kids own school.they would have changed her with two members of female staff present

Why female staff only?

Hi there,
Many thanks for the reports about this thread. As we said to the individuals who reported, we don't believe that this poster is anyone other than they say they are, so we are inclined to leave the thread.
We would ask once again that posters do not troll hunt, it is upsetting for genuine OPs and exactly the reaction that actual trolls are looking for.

Any word back from the school yet OP?