Child left for 45 mins in own poo??

[ShallallalAa]

My dc aged 4 was left for 45 mins at school having pooed herself (I am a first response worker BTW and dp was 2 hours away)
She was left in the loo covered in her own poo. I left immediately and got there and left colleagues on the ward.
Should she have been changed or helped to clean herself up by a staff member?
She was extremely distressed by the time I got there.

This is why I think schools should have more time and clearer guidance to how to cope with Covid 19 and kids. I wouldn’t want my kid in school if they were going to be left alone after an accident like this, I’d rather they were at home. If you are a key worker then I’d be looking up guidance from other countries that is sensible, meeting with the head and sharing that to help them manage it better next time.

We’ll leave it to the OP to judge what is helpful or not. This is a discussion forum, the clue is in the name. I don’t have anything further to add.

And I always had apron and gloves obviously.

Teachers are not prevented by law.

Children have accidents - no ones fault it’s just what happens. It doesn’t need to be a medical need. Unless it’s a regular occurrence, it doesn’t need to be worried about.

I don’t think this is the case of the op, but some children are not potty trained due to medical and cognitive needs - it’s not an issue, if a child has this need then it’s part of my job. Why should continence prevent education?

Refusing to deal with a child could have a long term emotional impact on them. We don’t want children feeling shame for this type of accident.

Schools should have a policy that enables staff to deal with this. This could be that the child is instructed (very kindly and with care) to get themselves changed. Staff would intervene wearing gloves etc if necessary. Parents may be phoned prior to this to check - but this would be detailed in the policy.

If it was my child, I would be complaining formally through the school’s complaints procedure.

I work in school and we have been told that AT THIS TIME we should not have any physical contact with the children unless a life threatening emergency. We’ve been told to put wipes, clean clothes, wipes, etc in reach of child and instruct them and call parents.

Personally I think I would find it very hard not to help a child in need but we do only have gloves, no aprons or masks or anything like that....

Completely unacceptable. Even during the current pandemic a child should absolutely be helped with personal care when necessary. If the staff don’t have the correct ppe they should be providing the child with the tools to clean themselves up and talking them through it from a distance (wipes and clean clothes etc). Get in touch with the head ASAP op.

Why are schools planning to 're open if this is what it's going to be like.

Because they've been told to by the government.

Find out what the schools policy is. See if they adhered to it. They may not have the correct PPE to get so close to a child they could change her if they are not expecting to do so and arrangements haven’t been made with her parents if this is a rare occurrence.
I would imagine they are trying their best to protect her obeying all rules re sexual abuse and Covid-19.

Yes your child was upset. Who wouldn’t be. But I wouldn’t imagine any serious issue arising from this one off incident apart from discomfort and embarrassment. It’s just a bit of poo. She’ll get over it. We’ve all done it, sometimes as adults with a tummy bug.

... and even in NORMAL times we cannot provide intimate care if the child says they don’t want us to touch them.

@WhoCaresAnyway95 - if you don't agree with the current plan your school has in place, you don't have to send your child and you won't incur a fine. Schools are planning to reopen because they have been told to!

Get in touch with the head ASAP op.

It would be helpful if the op elaborated on the situation. Maybe the teacher did provide wipes, clean underwear etc and tried to direct the child.
Or maybe not.
But it’s hard to give advice without the relevant facts.

Oh for gods sake as a teacher I would buy my own aprons, masks, I have done for the home. There is obviously not a law, just teachers expecting to be provided with all the gear at all times. We are in odd times, so we use our noddle and carry extras. Do teachers expect someone else to provide tissues when they want to sneeze. Christ on a bike.

I had filled in the questionnaire stating my daughter would be returning 1st June, since reading the letter and watching the video of how everything is going to work under new guide lines I've changed my mind. My DD is only 5, the children's desks are far apart, they have to sit 3 seats away at lunch time from friends and also follow a designated path for playing at lunch and break times. I understand coronavirus is dangerous, however I don't think it's good for the children's emotional well being. She will now not return until schools return to normal, I'd rather keep her here with me and if any accidents should happen I can deal with them straight away. Leaving a child in her own poo for that length of time is disgusting, the school should be ashamed.

don't have sufficient PPE, then they shouldn't be opening.

Schools have only just been sent PPE beyond gloves.
This is for use if a child becomes ill with suspected Covid.
There is one set.
It is not for use in general circumstances.

There's no way we would have done that, we have 3 members of staff so one could watch children, one could help the child and one could 'supervise'.
I picked up a child the other day because she'd fallen over and hurt herself and her shoe had come off, she's 4 I wasn't going to leave her sat on gravel in pain while i helped her put her shoe on or make her walk with no shoe on across the stones to the wall and then put her shoe on so I picked her up, dusted her off, sorted her out and sent her off happy.

Wow how long would they have left her if you couldn’t leave or didn’t pick up the message? An hour? Two? All day?
This is not ok, you need to know why this happened.

Intimate care is fine and part and parcel of working with young children.

Schools have risk assessments and procedures in place.

At the school I teach in, we have a renewed risk assessment for changing children which involves basic PPE and changing from the side/behind to avoid face to face contact.

She shouldn’t have been left like this for any length of time. I wouldn’t jump to a formal complaint but I would be asking some questions - and I say that as a teacher.

I echo what another poster said - how did they explain this to you? Did they ring you and say she’s in the toilet and we can’t help her? I presume you asked why and I’m curious what their reasoning was.

I suspect it's due to social distancing, this is taken from a letter on a school website listing 'the truths' about social distancing at school,
If they fall over or have a toileting accident if we cannot source PPE or masks (personally I do not want teachers having to wear masks in order not to scare children) they will be encouraged to change themselves and clean their scrape or cut. IF this is not possible the parent will be called to collect them so they can do that at home.

Not all schools are responding in this way but obviously some are.

There are rules where we are that prohibit this. A teacher or teachers can’t be with a child who has their underwear removed - for obvious reasons. If a child has a medical or developmental issue then there is a written plan that authorises an aide to assist.

This is nothing new. My eldest is nearly mid-20’s and when they had an odd accident in first year I’d school they were sent to the loo in the school office with a pair of undies from the ‘spares’ pile.

Similarly, for swimming classes, teachers here are not able to be in change rooms where children are naked. They have to go into the change room to make sure there are no other people in there, and when empty kids go in and teacher waits outside. A sign is placed (by pool facility, not teacher) that change room is shut while kids get changed. Teacher shouts at entrance for them to hurry, marks them off out then change room is opened. It’s thought that kids in first year of school should be able to get changed by themselves. If there is a medical or developmental need as to why this is not possible they have an approved plan and are assisted by an aide on a one to one basis in the disabled or family change room.

When schools around here reopen teachers will have to wear PPE to assist children and be in twos. Maybe the school was unexpectedly short of staff.

We are living in unprecedented times, a little understanding wouldn't go amiss. There could be many reasons as people have said.

Sorry, should have specified the rules here are long standing, absolutely nothing to do with Covid but protecting both teachers and children.

My friend is a teacher. Her school has the same policy at the moment. They call a parent.

Could you link to those rules please Hopping ,because clearly some teachers on here DO assist with personal care and again if you read the ERIC guidelines it suggests leaving a child wet and or soiled is abuse .

Just a reminder to everyone sharing stories of their own DC, mumsnet has a well-known poo troll. Hopefully this poster is genuine, but maybe refrain from sharing personal anecdotes just in case.

I'm assuming it's not 'the law' from a child protection perspective, but it's being dictated by current social distancing guidelines. Surely there was a better way to handle that? The staff should have PPE for those kinds of situations? Or even of the teacher provided your child with wipes and clean pants and stood 2m away and talked her through cleaning herself up and changing her pants, helping her that way? I think just leaving a 4yr old in a toilet in her own poo is a really awful thing to do, no wonder the poor little mite was upset.