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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think people living alone have been appallingly neglected?

366 replies

TurtleTortoise · 21/05/2020 12:23

From the beginnning of lockdown, they have allowed children to move between households. Children were allowed to potentially spread covid (we didn't know then that they might not be spreaders) presumably because the risk of emotional harm from being separated from a parent was considered too great. So why the fuck, over eight weeks later, have they still not considered the harm being caused to people living alone?

There was a mention in the government document released last week that in the next stage, when schools open, they might change social rules for people living alone, eg. to be allowed to mix mormally with one household. For a start, WTF?? How on earth are those two things comparable enough that single people have to wait until multiple children and adults can be in a school before they can hug even ONE other person? If they delay schools going back, does that mean they'll forget us too? Are we supposed to wait until September? Shock

Secondly, I looked specifically for articles over the last week that may be speculating or have further information about this. The only thing I came up with was this: Like millions, I've paid a 'single penalty' in lockdown – so why is no one talking about it?

The last hug I had was on March 9 — yes, so important I know the date. I’m on my own and feeling it. No love, no human touch. No hugs, no hand-holding. I hate this. Touch makes us feel safe, calms us and releases the ‘love hormone’ oxytocin. I miss oxytocin.
...
Those of us who are alone “are in a uniquely difficult position right now,” she adds. “We are social creatures; we are programmed from birth to connect with other people — our whole biological system (brain, body and central nervous system) is hard-wired to form attachments with others. We need other people. What’s the worst punishment inflicted on people in prison? Solitary confinement."

This was the only relevant article that came up in my search. So why aren't there more? Why isn't anyone talking about it, or better still actually making policy to address it? How can they be allowed to do this to single people without breaking some kind of human rights thing about right to family life or something?

I am really struggling, as is probably obvious. I'm actively being traumatised by this, on top of pre-existing trauma. Meeting one person at a time from 2m away just doesn't cut it. Why haven't they recognised the importance of human touch? And anyway, anyone can do that - why havent they considered people living alone specifically, before others? Why must we wait until it's safe for everyone to meet, when we have greater need and lower risk in terms of the number of people we'd pass it on to?

It seem so cruel. As if it's not devastating enough already to be without partner and children! Now our close friends and loved ones are torn away by this cold-hearted government, and no-one seems to care.

OP posts:
RollaCola84 · 22/05/2020 13:50

I agree and I've said this a few times to friends, family and in work. I live alone through choice and I'm generally fine in my own company but I feel like those who live alone are being pushed to the bottom of the list and forgotten about.

I had a socially distant walk with my partner last weekend and a drive way chat with my mum and dad (technically breaking roooolz, sue me) which was the closest thing I'd had to a real conversation for almost 9 weeks.

I haven't had any physical contact with another human for sixty six days and it doesn't sound like that's going to change anytime soon. I've found myself fixating on that contact, which was nudging my boss when we were winding each other up about something. I'm a introvert who needs my alone time to recharge but I'm also tactile - I'm a hugger, an arm linker, a cuddly sleeper, a hand on the arm / shoulder etc. Its really, really fucking hard.

RollaCola84 · 22/05/2020 13:55

I mentioned this on a work call and a colleague who has three young children scoffed and said "I'd like half an hour's quiet". Its a not a fucking competition and whilst I'm sure they would like some peace and quiet I doubt they'd fancy being totally alone for two and half months either.

PafLeChien · 22/05/2020 13:57

stolen from another thread, sums it up perfectly

To think people living alone have been appallingly neglected?
Pleasenodont · 22/05/2020 13:59

I’ve never personally agreed with children being allowed to swap households. Appreciate it’s difficult but the NRP should put the safety of their child, themselves and their ex partner ahead of seeing their child for a few hours a week imo. Shoot me.

sirfredfredgeorge · 22/05/2020 14:05

Appreciate it’s difficult but the NRP should put the safety of their child, themselves and their ex partner ahead of seeing their child for a few hours a week imo. Shoot me.

You simply don't understand the risks, the risk and harm to the child of losing contact and relationship with one of the households is large, for most, it's likely larger than the risk to covid for both households.

Your misunderstanding of the risk is not surprising due to the atrocious media and government reporting that focussed too much on the harm from the virus alone.

Willow2017 · 22/05/2020 14:17

As a person living alone, people need to get over it. You won't die from no social interactions or "hugs" for a few months
Well good for you. You dont have to worry about anyone who has struggled massively with this. No mental health problems, no suicidal thoughts. Everyone should be just like you eh?

Some of the posts on here! Good god its not a race to the bottom nor a if i am ok then so should everyone else be situation.
People are struggling thats a fact. This situation is the opposite of normal human interaction. Its unsustainable long term without huge consequences. Adults and kids alike are feeling the effects of this. Brushing it aside with an "I'm all right jack so so should you be" attitude is appaling. Once the true cost of this in mental health issues in both adults and children, including suicides, is known people are going to ask why we let it go on so long.

MarginalGain · 22/05/2020 14:17

@sirfredfredgeorge
you are correct. Wink

iamapixie · 22/05/2020 14:23

Yanbu. Lockdown is creating huge problems for many people. It won't be any consolation, but no one cares about an entire generation of children in all this either, so at least you're not alone in that sense.
I don't know how we so easily moved from 'lockdown to flatten the curve and build NHS capacity' to 'lockdown forever'. It's a total disgrace, but it seems to be what the most vocal want.

MarginalGain · 22/05/2020 14:27

I don't know how we so easily moved from 'lockdown to flatten the curve and build NHS capacity' to 'lockdown forever'. It's a total disgrace, but it seems to be what the most vocal want.

Yep.

The only thing that gives me hope for the future, really, are the occasional glimmers of reason in a sea of insanity.

thanks. Wine

TurtleTortoise · 22/05/2020 14:27

Pleasenodont
What are you so sure that the NRP only sees their children for a few hours a week?
What about where care is 50:50? Or at least significant?

OP posts:
RollaCola84 · 22/05/2020 14:32

@iamapixie here here

In some circles if you ever suggest easing lockdown the reaction is as if you advocated going out clubbing people to death

Lynda07 · 22/05/2020 14:46

RollaCola84 Fri 22-May-20 13:55:57
I mentioned this on a work call and a colleague who has three young children scoffed and said "I'd like half an hour's quiet". Its a not a fucking competition and whilst I'm sure they would like some peace and quiet I doubt they'd fancy being totally alone for two and half months either.
.........
You don't know that! Why get into such conversations? If you are speaking to a colleague, keep the conversation to work issues. By all means ask how they are but just listen to their reply sympathetically without offering opinions.

People are struggling in different ways, unless we really can help someone without any judgement, it's best to say nothing. There's no point in getting upset or even irate at this difficult time, we can't walk in the shoes of someone else. Let's just accept we are individuals and deal with the situation in the way that suits us best.

Lynda07 · 22/05/2020 14:48

RollaColl: "...the reaction is as if you advocated going out clubbing..."

Those were the days, eh? :-)

A little cavorting around the living room with a video in the background is the most that can be managed at the moment.

RollaCola84 · 22/05/2020 14:56

@lynda07 it was a manager's call about Mental Health Awareness Week, I suggested we may wish to consider the isolation of colleagues who live alone using myself as an example. I know I am trying to be aware, sympathetic and accommodating of all the different difficulties my team are experiencing. I hoped my fellow managers were doing the same. Apparently not.

RollaCola84 · 22/05/2020 14:58

@Lynda07 "we can't walk in the shoes of someone else. Let's just accept we are individuals and deal with the situation in the way that suits us best"

The whole point of this thread though is that many of us who live alone have experienced a complete and utter lack of empathy for those who either think we should just suck it up or want to get into competitive shitness

RollaCola84 · 22/05/2020 14:58

*from those

Willow2017 · 22/05/2020 15:07

Appreciate it’s difficult but the NRP should put the safety of their child, themselves and their ex partner ahead of seeing their child for a few hours a week imo. Shoot me.

And if its not for a few hours a week? If its 50/50 and both parents are working around this? Is one parent supposed to jack thier job in to accommodate the other?
Are kids supposed to have thiet lives turned even more upside down than they already are by banning them from half thier life and not see a parent for months?

Things are not black and white no matter how many people try to insist they are.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 22/05/2020 15:19

I'd really love to hear how people suggest this should be managed.

Those of you decrying the lockdown are doing so from the privilege that the lockdown brought. Yes, it's been incredibly hard for many, many people but then it would have been incredibly hard if they'd just let nature take its course.

Some of you are complaining that others lack empathy about how hard it is to live alone. We'll, many of you lack empathy when you assert that the young have been sacrificed to save the old and the sick. That is just disgusting.

For a start, the vulnerable aren't all old or sick, and even if they were who are you to decide their lives aren't worth anything?

Secondly, if they had let the NHS get overwhelmed it would have affected all of you young or healthy people. The virus would have infected healthy people (as it in fact did) and there wouldn't have been beds available to support them. Instead of appearing in the recovered statistics they would have been in the number of dead.

You are acting as though the government have a choice in this. So many people on this site are complaining about lockdown, about a track and trace system, about any measure that might be needed to ease lockdown but control spread. We can't just go back to life pre Covid.

Honestly, what would you have been like during the war? Protested against conscription, refused to co operate with the blackout, refused rationing or ID cards because they violated your human rights or affected your mental health? This is a global emergency. Normal rules can't apply and that is for the good of all of us, not just the old and the sick.

highmarkingsnowbile · 22/05/2020 15:30

This isn't a war.

We'll, many of you lack empathy when you assert that the young have been sacrificed to save the old and the sick. That is just disgusting.

It's also true.

ChocolatelyAsFuck · 22/05/2020 15:33

Hearhoovesthinkzebras I understand where you’re coming from, but you’re conflating a whole bunch of different opinions and perspectives coming from numerous different posters.

The isolated posters asking for empathy are not the same people as the posters talking about sacrificing the young to save the old. In fact some of the posters in the former category have argued against the posters in the latter category.

When you say “You” who are you addressing? The suicidal disabled poster who is had MH support cut off? The other suicidal poster accused of killing people by sitting in a field? The posters who are shielding? The posters who are healthy but feel isolated? The posters who don’t understand why anyone would struggle with isolation because they really enjoy spending all day watching Netflix and taking long county walks? The posters who don’t think the virus is a problem because they’re low risk of being unwell with it? The ones arguing for more empathy for everyone? The ones who only want empathy for themselves? The ones showing callous disregard for empathy altogether?

It’s all different people.

Connieston · 22/05/2020 15:39

As I understand it the NHS was 'protected' to the extent that we still had world beating numbers dying they just weren't admitted into hospitals so died at home and in care homes. They dropped the admission criteria quite soon after the penny dropped on this. More moderate cases admitted for oxygen like Boris, plus lockdown meant the numbers started to come down. I think ventilators turned out to be like bog roll - not the super valuable magic wand/magical item we got it in our heads they were. If you're on a ventilator your prognosis really isn't great, and if your prognosis isn't great they might not even put you on one as it's so invasive. I sincerely hope the nightingales DO stay empty. The alternative is awful.

Back on topic I do find the lack of empathy across the board depressing. It's brought out the absolute worst in so many people. Snappish, defensive, selfish, pompous, nimby curtain twitching bores... I hoped as a country we'd have done better.

Lynda07 · 22/05/2020 15:39

RollaCola84 Fri 22-May-20 14:58:29
@Lynda07 "we can't walk in the shoes of someone else. Let's just accept we are individuals and deal with the situation in the way that suits us best"

The whole point of this thread though is that many of us who live alone have experienced a complete and utter lack of empathy for those who either think we should just suck it up or want to get into competitive shitnes.
.........
Yes they do, I haven't experienced it in 'real life' but have certainly seen it on here and it comes as a bit of a shock. I don't understand that sort of attitude.

When this is all over people will look back and remember a time when many were heartless.

PS: I was being 'lighthearted' in my previous thread about 'clubbing', in case you didn't 'get' that.

sirfredfredgeorge · 22/05/2020 15:47

I'd really love to hear how people suggest this should be managed

The evidence for the physical isolation was good, the evidence for continued social isolation is not, the management failure by the government and media is that the costs of a lockdown were never discussed other than in financial terms. There was the occasional "oh look after your mental health", but no acknowledgement that social isolation alone is a killer, so therefore a lockdown had to be short term, otherwise it would kill more.

That failure of management has led to too many people believing that lockdowns are not a problem, or perhaps only a financial problem that could be solved with government money, that has led them to continue to advocate more and tighter lockdown even when the transmission risks are low.

What is the increased risk of death due to social isolation?
What is the increased risk of death due to poverty?

I doubt very many people of this thread have any idea of those risks, and it's questionable despite the huge amount of research on both that the studies could for certain be extended to a lock down caused social isolation as it may well be different, but good arguments about why it would be different would be welcome to the debate. But because the management of this has completely ignored talking about those risks, people think the virus risk is all dominant regardless of actual risks.

So that's where the management has failed, and continues to fail, and the media and government do have a choice in it, they chose to act as if the virus was the only thing that mattered and chose to make out the only downside of lockdown was financial which the nice chancellor would help you out with.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 22/05/2020 15:50

ChocolatelyAsFuck

I'm shielding. I've had urgent treatments post phoned. I currently have oxygen saturations of 89%. I've been waiting for a respiratory appointment since February. In ordinary times a pulse ox of 89% would have had me in hospital. Other treatment that was due next week has been postponed until November. I haven't seen my adult children since February. I haven't seen my elderly parents since March. I can't sleep in the same bed as my husband. Despite living with him we can't be closer than six feet or even in the same room for long. I have no idea how long this will go.kn for me, or others shielding. I have no idea if I will lose my job or if I will be paid. At least most of you can go.out, can meet one other person, can see some end to this.

So, I do get it. It's miserable for me too but I'm not insisting that only my needs should be met here.

Many posters insist that this is being done to.protect me, that I'm shielding to protect myself. In part that's true but the main reason is because government know that if I, and people like me, catch this we will take resources away from others. We will block hospital beds, we will block ventilators. There are 2.2 million of us shielding. There aren't enough resources to treat us, plus the rest of the population and they no that we would need many more resources, so we are shut away to preserve access to resources for the rest of you.

These threads are utterly disgusting. No wonder concentration camps happened. People too quickly "other" human beings and view their lives as worth less. That is only too clear on threads like these. Many of us shielding live perfectly normal lives usually. We work, have families, volunteer, exercise, have hobbies. We aren't all bed bound, claiming benefits with one foot in the grave (not that that would excuse these views even if we were) but ffs just stop with the "you were all going to die anyway" attitudes.

ChocolatelyAsFuck · 22/05/2020 15:55

I’m also shielding, and I’m not one of the posters who has ever expressed the opinions you reference in your post.

Please don’t lump all of us into one category.