To think people living alone have been appallingly neglected?

[TurtleTortoise]

From the beginnning of lockdown, they have allowed children to move between households. Children were allowed to potentially spread covid (we didn't know then that they might not be spreaders) presumably because the risk of emotional harm from being separated from a parent was considered too great. So why the fuck, over eight weeks later, have they still not considered the harm being caused to people living alone?

There was a mention in the government document released last week that in the next stage, when schools open, they might change social rules for people living alone, eg. to be allowed to mix mormally with one household. For a start, WTF?? How on earth are those two things comparable enough that single people have to wait until multiple children and adults can be in a school before they can hug even ONE other person? If they delay schools going back, does that mean they'll forget us too? Are we supposed to wait until September?

Secondly, I looked specifically for articles over the last week that may be speculating or have further information about this. The only thing I came up with was this: Like millions, I've paid a 'single penalty' in lockdown – so why is no one talking about it?

The last hug I had was on March 9 — yes, so important I know the date. I’m on my own and feeling it. No love, no human touch. No hugs, no hand-holding. I hate this. Touch makes us feel safe, calms us and releases the ‘love hormone’ oxytocin. I miss oxytocin.
...
Those of us who are alone “are in a uniquely difficult position right now,” she adds. “We are social creatures; we are programmed from birth to connect with other people — our whole biological system (brain, body and central nervous system) is hard-wired to form attachments with others. We need other people. What’s the worst punishment inflicted on people in prison? Solitary confinement."

This was the only relevant article that came up in my search. So why aren't there more? Why isn't anyone talking about it, or better still actually making policy to address it? How can they be allowed to do this to single people without breaking some kind of human rights thing about right to family life or something?

I am really struggling, as is probably obvious. I'm actively being traumatised by this, on top of pre-existing trauma. Meeting one person at a time from 2m away just doesn't cut it. Why haven't they recognised the importance of human touch? And anyway, anyone can do that - why havent they considered people living alone specifically, before others? Why must we wait until it's safe for everyone to meet, when we have greater need and lower risk in terms of the number of people we'd pass it on to?

It seem so cruel. As if it's not devastating enough already to be without partner and children! Now our close friends and loved ones are torn away by this cold-hearted government, and no-one seems to care.

Tbh I would rather get covid19 than stay locked up alone in a village where I don't know anyone....
All this 'it's for your own protection ' posts are so....infantilising.

Well, we’ve got people with families posting in this thread because they miss their friends and other family

And then there are people like me, who are struggling with the lack of "alone time" because DP and I are both WFH and have been under the same roof 24/7 (apart from the occasional shopping trip) since 12 March, when DP got symptoms, followed by me a few days later.

I know we're very lucky to have each other really, but there have been times this last couple of weeks when I could gladly have killed him, just so I didn't have to hear him breathe for one more minute.

It’s interesting comparing this thread, where posters are lectured that they shouldn’t complain because they can Zoom or Facetime, with the anti-video call thread where pp are acting like anyone alone who wants to Facetime with their family is a pain in the arse at best, violating pp’s privacy at worst.

It’s worth remembering that MN doesn’t reflect real life. People who choose to spend a lot of time online, and this has been true of every internet community I’ve ever been part of, are more likely to be part of the tiny minority of extreme-introverts (or people with profound social interaction problems). I’m always slightly surprised by the number of Mumsnetters who have no friends, regard even the tiniest social security interaction to be a horrendous violation, and give every impression they wish they were a 15th century hermit living in a cave somewhere.

I’m not judging, but that level of extreme introversion is unusual irl, but over represented in large forums like this. So you get a jaundiced perspective of what level of social or family contact is normal and some posters really don’t understand why not everyone wants to be a cave-hermit.

I think it would be really interesting to know the stats on how many people have left London and the potential impact that’s had on the spread.

the royals were the first one to lead the way, so wouldn't others follow? Of course some people have chosen their holiday home or to spend time with family. We had more than enough warning about the lockdown to have had time to do it sensibly and within the guidelines.

For people working from home, there was a time when they made the choice to stay put or move.

Ah the “people are dying” brigade are out in force I see.

Thing is, while COVID is of course important,it is not the be all and end all. As unpalatable as people might find that.

There are still human beings at the end of this, people who still have to continue living their lives after this is over. And the whole “well, you won’t be saying that when you’re fighting for breath in your last moments” fear mongering is just that, fear mongering with no actual basis,because even the number of deaths compared to the number of people in the UK,while far too high, is still small.

The number of unemployed, of suicides, of people descending into poverty, people who are going to develop mental health issues is going to be far larger than the number of COVID deaths, and there comes a point where you have to balance out the needs of the many against the needs of the few.

And yes, I am vulnerable, serious heart problems and haven’t left my house, or seen my partner or family since March. I don’t expect anyone to do anything about it and I won’t change it,but that doesn’t mean that I or others in similar situations don’t have the right to be affected by things other than COVID.

Going back to the comment about “third world.” I grew up in an environment of extreme deprivation and poverty (street homeless, forced to eat out of bins). The lack of love and social contact is what killed me. That was a thousand times worse than lack of food or shelter.

Anyone who’s been in that situation or a similar situation will say the same.

Its hard OP, but what do you suggest the government should do?

Provide the evidence about how many people lockdown itself will kill, and who it will kill, and what the actual risks are, so people understand the lockdown risks, and are less likely to bleat over any discussion about harm by saying "but the virus". Failing to give evidence of how many people lock down might kill, means people cannot judge the risk of any of their activities because it's all about the risk of the virus.

The virus increases your risk of death by maybe 1, if you catch it, social isolation increases your risk of death by maybe 0.5. Just because the social isolation deaths take longer to come, doesn't mean they can be ignored, and isolating 100 people to stop 1 infection means the isolation will kill a lot more.

Finding ways to end and mitigate social isolation is crucial, particularly in groups where the risk of death is very low.

and there comes a point where you have to balance out the needs of the many against the needs of the few.

well, the potential victims of Covid19 are "the many", that's the point.
Once measures are actually working, and the effect is being limited, people start questioning them because they are bored, and they forget they can't see many of the negatives because the measures have been working!

The problem is that lifting all restrictions too early can bring the rates too high and the first lockdown being a waste of time.

It's an impossible scenario: don't do anything and people die in mass, the already stretched and not coping NHS cope even less, and people are in uproar because nothing was done.
Put effective measures and the effects are reduced so much people deny their point and convince themselves it was a waste of time - the smug guffawing about "dementors" on this site is telling.

Restrictions ARE being lifted slowly, the country IS reopening.

So many posters on here really need to stop being so childish and tough it up a bit. There was a poster who was envious of people who lived during the blitz because at least "they were all dancing together and having some kind of jolly".

Can anybody in the same situation move in with you op? Or you move in with them? You're allowed to move and always have been. I know it's not ideal and might just be swapping one set of problems for another. Covid is shit. There are no winners or good options.

the already stretched and not coping NHS cope even less, and people are in uproar because nothing was done

I thought the nhs was coping? We barely even used the nightingale hospital they set up. Hospitals are pretty quiet from what I've heard.

The NHS is coping with Covid because it has scaled down many other services so lots of non Covid patients aren't receiving the treatment they need.

Why can't people realise that literally no one is suggesting "lifting all restrictions"? Who here has said mass gatherings should be allowed, full pubs, full restaurants and packed cinemas should all start resuming now?

People are not just whining about this for the sake of it. Personally I have sucked up all restrictions without complaint...but for the one where I know there is no harm whatsoever me doing it, because you know I am an educated adult with critical thinking facilities.

As for the assertion that the people are potential victims of the virus are "the many not the few", well that's just demonstrable bullshit

And the whole “well, you won’t be saying that when you’re fighting for breath in your last moments” fear mongering is just that, fear mongering with no actual basis,because even the number of deaths compared to the number of people in the UK,while far too high, is still small.

If you think they are far too high now, they would be significantly higher if lockdown hadn’t happened! It would be hard to quantify but, in London at least, hospitals came perilously near to being unable to cope. There would have been more deaths as more people would have caught it and there would not have been hospital care for all who needed it.

London had 18 people in the 4000 excel hospital so I do not agree NHS in London was close to collapse although my local hospital in covid central was full at one point.

I certainly have never supported a compulsory lockdown. Yet I have abided by it (only done 1 walk in 9 weeks even) and even though unlike many I don't get any free payer money (because am honest enough not to have a limited company and to have declared earnings over £50k to HMRC so presumably will be the mug paying for everyone's free furlough money and state paid wages next year.... for a lockdown I won't want nor need to support an NHS I don't want nor use nor like - even my NHS doctor sibling thinks we have sacrificed the young for the old in this and should not have done so)

lakielady, if you are going out to shop, why are you not otherwise leaving the house? Going on walks, I find people far better at social distancing than in the shops.

I'm single, live alone, but am still working.

Yesterday I accidentally walked backwards into a colleague (it's practically impossible to socially distance at work, it's a tiny space) and he sort of caught me and fended me off.

And I realised that it was the first time that someone has touched me since I hugged my DD goodbye at the airport at the beginning of March when I left Australia to come home.

It was a weird feeling. But I have a dog and I hug her mercilessly sometimes, it's fulfilling my need for contact. And work means that I have a 'social life' of sorts, so I am a lot better off than most. Plus I live in a village, so we've all been stopping to chat at a distance. So it's not the contact so much as the physical contact that I am missing!

Xenia, I think even you, if you had contracted Covid 19 and had been badly affected would have had to use the NHS!

Surely there’s a middle ground between “it’s all fearmongering the NHS is fine” and “suicidal people are selfish and immature and mustn’t even slightly bend the rules even in a very low-risk way.”

ChocolatelyAsFuck

Of course there is, everyone I know in real life is following the guidelines but understand that there are circumstances when you have to apply some common sense. But people like to argue and these threads inevitably attract the extremes of people.

formerbabe
I thought the nhs was coping?

what do you call coping? The NHS is handling the current crisis because pretty much everything else has been put on hold.

The NHS is NOT coping with the unrelated medical issues and hasn't been for many years. Do you know how long the waiting lists are, how essential procedures have been declassified as "non essentials". Do you know how inhuman the hospitals are for patients, with overcrowded communal wards that belong in the Middle Ages? Our NHS is fucked at the best of times. Have you even tried to get an ambulance for a desperate situation and seen how long it takes it to get there? Do you know air ambulance are charities?

It really doesn't take much for the whole thing to collapse, and the UK was (still is) in one of the worst positions.

This needs to be rectified through reform and better management, not by keeping us in our houses forever.

I certainly have never supported a compulsory lockdown. Yet I have abided by it (only done 1 walk in 9 weeks even)

if you are in the UK, you were never in such a lockdown you couldn't go for a walk.

Personally I have sucked up all restrictions without complaint...but for the one where I know there is no harm whatsoever me doing it, because you know I am an educated adult with critical thinking facilities

yes, make your own rules, that's what people like you, because they all know better . The only problem is.. if everybody else is doing the same, then the very real risk is for a real lockdown and everybody is fucked.

You are just taking advantage of the majority but hypocritically moaning that we shouldn't take them in account.

I would have no problem at all if people living on their own met up with other people living on their own who are furloughed/WFH for a chat and and maybe even a hug, shock horror. That's what I am doing so no, I am not a hypocrite.

I would have no problem at all if people living on their own met up with other people living on their own who are furloughed/WFH for a chat and and maybe even a hug, shock horror.

why just people on their own? What's the difference between a WFH singleton or WFH couple or family of 10?

The point is that there's no need to make up ridiculous exceptions, at least be consistent.