Would you carry on letting grandparents see child after this?

[Slidetotheleft]

DD's (5) father disappeared off the face of the earth 12 months ago. Has paid no maintenance since then. Currently owes over 3k and counting.

DDs grandparents (his parents) know where he is but refuse to tell me. Their argument is that he is trying to rebuild his business/life and cannot do that with the maintenance people on his back. He hasn't even sent DD a birthday card or anything at xmas. The maintenance people cannot find him, his parents know where he is but refuse to tell me and if DD asks them they say they don't know (not sure how long they can carry that on for).

They are currently still seeing DD twice a month (not during lockdown). And speak to her once a week on the phone.

My question is WIBU to say actually whilst you cannot be honest with me or DD I don't want her in your care. I DO NOT want to do this, DD enjoys their company and they love seeing her.

But it really really gets to me that they are happy to see her go without the support she deserves and to actually lie to her face when she asks where her daddy is.

What would you do?

I’m with a PP - if they want contact with your DD then it needs to be arranged by their son.
I couldn’t collude with their deceit in denying DD the truth about her father (that he just cba!)

Actually I’ve changed my mind. I think that you should let her see them but be honest about how they know where her dad is. Or, if you do choose to limit contact then be honest about the reason why. So that there’s no secrets and she doesn’t feel it’s her fault.

They are allowing their son to shirk his financial responsibilities to his daughter and are complicit in that.

I think that is the biggest issue I have. How nice would it be to keep all your money and not have to spend it on a child you created. FFS he needs to pay, something, anything.

I watched this with my friend when she divorced and his parents said they would make sure that the she (and by default the 2 children they had) never saw a penny from their son. How fucking horrible can you be?

So no, I wouldn't allow contact to continue with the grandparents. Just because you are related by blood to someone does not make them a good person. Children can have relationships with all sorts of people who are not related to them.

Your DD will one day discover the lies and how will she feel knowing you kept taking her there to their house?

Do you think he is threatening them? Dont tell Slide where I am or I wont talk to you again? Most older people have strong values and many would not approve of him dodging his responsibilites like this .Do they pay for any treats for DD at all? They may be unhappy with this set up as well .I would let DD see them if you can or she will be minus a set of GPs as well as missing her DF (even though hes a Twat!)

I don't think it's for you to shoulder the weight of this decision alone OP as you are not the one that has created it. As other posters have said put the decision onto the grandparents, they either choose their son to facilitate access to her or they put his interest above your daughters and don't deserve to see her. To me 'wanting to build his business' is not a good enough reason to deny your child her rights!

He is their son and they are his parents, so they will support him even if they do not agree with his actions.

It isn't your daughter's fault that she has the father that she has. It isn't the grandparent's fault that their granddaughter has a shit for a dad. Cutting your daughter off from her grandparent's when they love her is no better than her dad fucking off and not supporting her. Except you would be doing it to your daughter this time.

God if any one of my siblings did something like that, i bet my dad would take over the payments. I have a sibling who is a bit crap and my parents fund all sorts for the grandchild. My dad would certainly not Support any of us abandoning a child.

Could you force them to take some responsibility for him and tell them finances are so desperate now, could they pay the maintenance? That might Prompt them to tell you where he is.

And seriously how shit is the cms.

I would cut contact. You can't trust them. I wouldn't leave my child with people I can't trust (especially when it means putting their son's financial interests above their granddaughters wellbeing). He can facilitate contact when he gets in touch.

Absolutely not no. They are proving they can't put your child first anyway.

I wonder whether there isn’t more to it. People don’t just disappear off the face of the earth in order to build a business. Is there a chance he could be in prison/in sone kind of trouble?

Ex would always talk reverently about his grandfather.
His grandfather had walked out on his young wife leaving two young children. The poor wife was left pretty much in abject poverty whilst the grandfather lived it up with his mistress and had a second family. From what it sounds like ex’s grandmother went through an utterly horrific time pretty near starving (not in the uk). Then in his old age he merrily returned home and grandmother took him back and by what it sounds took care of him in his dotage. And the entire family revere the man who abandoned his family and spent his youth living it up. Apparently grandma was a severe angry woman. I’d be fucking severe and angry in those circumstances too.

I wouldn’t be facilitating contact with this family who will be turning their son into a hero in your DD’s eyes. You’ll suffer for it as she gets older and hates you for being the parent whilst grandparents talk up their feckless useless son.

My DC. have no contact with their fathers side of the family and have no interest in them either. They have a close and loving relationship with DP & his family. If I ever split with DP I would probably continue allowing all dc to see DP’s family as they treat them well with love and I can’t see them ever allowing DP getting away without supporting his dc (DP and I have dc together as well).

So I wouldn’t.

I would cut contact and say it’s up to their son to arrange.
I don’t think your DD will benefit long term from grandparents lying to her even if at the moment she loves seeing them.

This one is so clear cut to me. They are not good people and there is no benefit to your DD to having them in her life. You should cut contact as they don’t have her best interests at heart and it will be damaging for her to form a bond with people who are willing to see her treated like this.

If it were my parents, they would do everything they could to make their son act properly (including telling the mother where he was) and if for whatever reason he still didn’t pay; they would step up and pay themselves (or whatever amount they afford).

It will be horrible for your DD to grow up loving these people and then realise how much they have betrayed her when she’s older. Cut contact now while she’s young enough to forget them. This contact is entirely for their benefit, not hers.

Also OP, if they’re sending your ex photos of his child etc, and speaking in depth to him about her, he’ll become complacent with this.

I’d assume not seeing or hearing anything at all would potentially make him make some effort with your child? And if not, then for the sake of your child I’d cut them all out.

It’s your daughter who will be left in the dark about where her dad is, when she’s older. Don’t forget.

Save her the heartbreak.

Your DD’s GPs see her twice a month and speak to her on the phone every week! That is amazing. My DCs see their GPs once or twice a year and never really speak to them on the phone, maybe once a year if i had to quantify it. There is no animosity at all, everyone gets along just fine, they are simply not that interested in their GCs. All 4 of the grandparents couldn’t give much of a monkeys really. When they do meet up it is lovely though MIL can’t cope with more than 30 mins of the DCs without pushing them away wanting a break. My parents are more tolerant of the DCs.

So to have interested GPs, your DD is blessed and so are you. You lucky things. Please don’t end that.

Lots of DCs grow up to be embarrassing shits but we are parents and we love them and sometimes we will cover up for them and their mistakes because we are embarrassed and because deep down we blame ourselves and because blood is thicker than water etc etc etc. Your MIL and FIL are probably just these parents.

If they are otherwise nice people and they actively seek a relationship with your DD please don’t end that. No one is perfect and no life is perfect. They may realise their mistakes one day and they may not. But either way your DD has GPs who care whether she gets a good report at school or care if she is ill in hospital or simply can be bothered to put up with listening to her rambling on the telephone. That is golden.

He can’t be “rebuilding his life” in any job that is taxed and pays NI, so I wonder how exactly he is doing this

But I presume the maintenance agency would know if he was in prison? Maybe not. But if he had no income while ‘rebuilding his life’ he could declare that and wouldn’t have to pay.

So is he ‘on the run’ from something else? Left the country for some reason? It’s all so dodgy.

Really tough situation OP.

He has put his parents in a horrible situation. But he and they are asking you to trust them with a relationship with your Dd while not trusting you with what is going on. And your child is left in limbo not knowing when and if her Dad will ever re-appear in her life. They are contributing to that emotional damage.

What is your relationship like with them? Can you talk calmly with them about the situation this is putting your child in? Being lied to, that you are dragged into supporting this lie, storing up trouble for the future, that a small child has no idea if she will see her Dad again, but they have this knowledge?

Rather than just issue an ultimatum and withdraw contact.

Can you tell CMS that they know where he is?

Oh do fuck off @hfrdgftcsdg you’re not here to critique other people’s input. The OP can decide which suggestions work for her. It’s not complicated for a 5 year old to be told what I suggested. She clearly knows some very complicated, upsetting things already and colluding in a lie against her doesn’t make that less so. But again, thats for the OP to decide.

Sorry this is a really long post but I just wanted to give the perspective of someone who was in a similar situation as a child and how I feel about it now as a grown up.

My parents divorced when I was 5 and my sister was 3.5, my mum, sister and I moved in with my Granny. I rarely and very sporadically saw my Dad in the first few years afterwards and always at his parents house. Like your ex dp he never paid any child maintenance. We had very little money and went without a lot.

My father's parents knew where he was and he visited them regularly, my grandma was terrible at keeping secrets and it sometimes slipped out that they'd seen him. They'd often say when we asked where he was that he wasn't very well at that moment or that he'd see us very soon. As an adult looking back that must have been so hard on them just as it was for my mum having to try to answer questions about why Daddy didn't want to see us.

However my paternal grandparents were absolutely devoted to my sister and I, they provided so much love and we stayed with them every other weekend regardless of whether my Dad was or wasn't around (he was more from when I was about 8 but I suspect mainly because he had nowhere else to live and was living with my gps).

As an adult I've also had lots of conversations about my Dad and my GPs with my mum and she has said that they were very disapproving of my Dad's behavior to him whilst also continuing to support him financially and try to protect his reputation with us all.

Apparently they spent a lot of time trying to persuade him to be involved with us and threatening to cut him off if he wasn't a better father etc. It's possible that your dd's gps are doing the same, presenting you with one answer but being much harder on him, maybe?

All my grandparents are dead now and I miss them all still terribly, they were all happy, solid and wonderful parts of an up and down childhood. I don't resent them for lying about where he was, I can recognise they were in a very difficult position and that it's not always black and white.

I am just pleased I have such lovely memories of having people around that loved me.

I wonder if there may be a new relationship involved possibly new grandchild on the way/out there that they may know about?

my mother fell out with all my grandparents when I was a child and I really missed them. I have almost no family and feel very alone at times, little sense of where I'm from.

I'd keep her in contact because you're otherwise it seems like you're punishing your child for the failings of her family. It's unfair to take more loved ones away from her, it's not her fault but she's the one who suffers.

I agree with others thst he is probably in prison. I think that is the only explanation that could possibly justify his parents' actions.
If that is the case they must feel dreadful.

I would let them see your child. They've been put in a shit position by their son. You are now putting them and your DD in the middle of that. He is the one to blame here not anyone else.

I’d stop all contact. If they ask why, tell them

“I’m trying to rebuild my business/life and cannot do that with other people on my back”

Petty, yes. Unreasonable, no.

I think it is good to keep the relationship up at the moment, though I would limit the interaction to only times when you are around and I would challenge any assertion that the GPs don't know where he is - politely.

"It is important that we tell the truth now. Unfortunately your daddy has gone away because he doesn't want to help mummy. GPs do know where he is but they don't want to upset him by telling us where he is hiding. I am very sorry that he isn't being a good daddy right now, but mummy and GPs do love you very much"