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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Would you carry on letting grandparents see child after this?

511 replies

Slidetotheleft · 20/05/2020 07:19

DD's (5) father disappeared off the face of the earth 12 months ago. Has paid no maintenance since then. Currently owes over 3k and counting.

DDs grandparents (his parents) know where he is but refuse to tell me. Their argument is that he is trying to rebuild his business/life and cannot do that with the maintenance people on his back. He hasn't even sent DD a birthday card or anything at xmas. The maintenance people cannot find him, his parents know where he is but refuse to tell me and if DD asks them they say they don't know (not sure how long they can carry that on for).

They are currently still seeing DD twice a month (not during lockdown). And speak to her once a week on the phone.

My question is WIBU to say actually whilst you cannot be honest with me or DD I don't want her in your care. I DO NOT want to do this, DD enjoys their company and they love seeing her.

But it really really gets to me that they are happy to see her go without the support she deserves and to actually lie to her face when she asks where her daddy is.

What would you do?

OP posts:
StepAwayFromGoogle · 20/05/2020 08:02

Really random thought, OP, but could you hire a private investigator to track him down? If you know where the grandparents live and they know where he lives it should be relatively easy to find him...

Spied · 20/05/2020 08:02

No, they'd not be seeing her.

minmooch · 20/05/2020 08:03

If a lie is told to protect a child then there can be an argument for that. If a lie is told to shield a grown adult from taking responsibility for his child then that's a no deal to me.

HarrietTheShy · 20/05/2020 08:05

YANBU. I'm the child of a father who didn't pay and I saw once a year. Being around his family made me feel so uncomfortable, even as a young child when I didn't fully understand. I would literally go to their home with holes in my shoes so big I might as well not have been wearing any and they'd show me a photo of him scuba diving, having a lovely holiday, making excuses I knew were bullshit at the age of 5.

I stopped going as soon as I was old enough to have a say and I have no relationship with any of them now.

TiddlestheCat · 20/05/2020 08:07

They sound awful. They are not only placing their son above a five year old, but are also completely disrespectful to you. They do not care that you are having to carry the can. I would explain that, the maintenance bill will only increase whilst he's not paying it and he will be faced with an enormous bill when the CSA catches up with him and be in much more trouble. If they love their son so much and want to help him rebuild his life, they should let him move in with them rent free! He should get a second job too (if indeed he has one at all). I would tell them this firmly and how, your daughter is already affected by him betraying and leaving her and you cannot expose her to further betrayal and lies. You need to protect her from that. So I would stop contact. You could always resume it in a few weeks if they decide to come clean and change their priorities. Honestly, they are being so disrespectful to the pair of you. No wonder their son turned out to be such a crap dad!

Coffeecak3 · 20/05/2020 08:09

Tell your il’s that when dd is old enough you will tell her the truth about their deception regarding her df.
Either they give you the information or they pay his share as pp suggested. It’s a case of misplaced loyalty imo.

If he really is hard up he won’t have much to pay. It’s more likely that he’s lying to the taxman and may be caught out.

JazzyTheDog · 20/05/2020 08:10

No they shouldn’t see her. They lie for him now to her detriment (do they thinks cost nothing to feed clothe and house her) and later if she ever sees him the lies will evolve and it will stuff like be bad mummy wouldn’t let you see your daddy and he tried soooo hard or daddy is better than mummy because bla bla etc.

Little kids love anyone who is nice to them and take an interest but it doesn’t make them good decent people who should be near your kid.

TwistyHair · 20/05/2020 08:11

Tell them that they can still see her but need to arrange contact through him. That you’re not going to facilitate it anymore but her dad is welcome to. Then it’s up to them what they want to do.

NailsNeedDoing · 20/05/2020 08:12

I’m surprised at anyone saying that you should stop DDs contact with her grandparents!

You can’t take a valued and important relationship away from three people including your young child because of a situation that is between two other people. I think it would be really spiteful to both your daughter and her grandparents to damage their relationship, none of this is their fault.

Your ex is obviously doing a horrible thing, so he’s probably capable of threatening his parents and putting them in this position. They’re probably scared they’ll never see him again if they tell, they’re still his parents. As long as your dd is being provided for and isn’t going without anything, they probably don’t see that they are depriving your dd because she’s fine and has the things she needs.

JessicaDay · 20/05/2020 08:14

They are behaving very badly. It’s a very bad thing to do in itself and they are also basically telling your daughter that lying is fine.

I say the following as someone who was abandoned by my own father. He later went bankrupt to avoid paying maintenance or having to make a fair divorce settlement with my mum- we ended up homeless for a while as a result. His family enabled his behaviour- his brother hid money for him during bankruptcy proceedings so he could have money one]de it was over and his parents funnelled money to him during that time.

I never saw my paternal grandparents, aunts/uncles/cousins again after I was abandoned by my father.

It was very hard on me emotionally. So as your child already has a relationship with the grandparents and an emotional connection with them, it could be very hard for her to lose that abruptly as well. She is the person who matters most in this situation.

However, I do agree that lockdown gives you an opportunity to recast the relationship.

For example, after lockdown they are welcome to visit your daughter at your home or in a public place with you present. The visits must be supervised by you or a member of your family/a friend who you trust.
No photographs.

Equally, don’t initiate confrontation with them over their son’s whereabouts, so don’t ask. But don’t let dishonest behaviour go unchallenged either.

So if your daughter asks where her father is and they say they don’t know, calmly tell them that is bad to display dishonest behaviour in front of your daughter, as that is a very bad example to set a child.

Make sure your daughter knows that lying isn’t an acceptable way to behave. It’s really important to be clear and calm and let your DD know it is not her fault.

User8008135 · 20/05/2020 08:15

No i wouldn't either. I would probably cut calls to halve amounts first to see she's not distressed, but monitor what they say to her. I wouldn't give any photos either if he's getting access to them.

If dd questioned I'd be age appropriate honest about their refusal to do right by their gc.

Littlepond · 20/05/2020 08:17

Is it possible he has manipulated them into believing that he is sorting everything out and it’ll be alright in the end? That he just needs a few more months and he is on the verge of making it big and then he can pay everything he owes and more? Are they naive enough to believe something like that? He’s brainwashed them into thinking if they give him up now he will never be able to provide for his daughter, if they give him “a few more months” then he can make everything right? He’s their son. They want to believe he can make this right.

I don’t know them but is that possible OP? That they think everything can be OK? They may feel they will lose their son altogether if they tell where he is, that’s a horrible position to be in Sad and they might think they can help him make everything right.

Itisbetter · 20/05/2020 08:17

Children learn what is right and wrong by observing the behaviour of those around them. If you want her to be like then facilitate the relationship. If you don’t, then don’t.

ememem84 · 20/05/2020 08:18

I would be telling Dd when she’s old enough to understand that they know where her dad is but won’t tell you. And let her make up her own mind.

In the mean time as harsh as it sounds I’d continue using the lockdown and social distancing as a reason why she can’t see them. Even when restrictions are lifted. I’m making the assumption that they’re over 65 here though.

Lucked · 20/05/2020 08:18

I voted Tannus because it is so terrible of him. Reading the replies I realise that is not necessarily putting the child first so I am now undecided.

If he is running a business can you not find him through that? What does he do?

Sertchgi123 · 20/05/2020 08:18

I think you are being petty by not letting them see each other

FFS. What planet are you on? Petty? Have you not read what’s going on?

@CrowdedHouseinQuarantine

Sceptre86 · 20/05/2020 08:18

I have a friend whose son is almost always out of work so his ex partner and mother of his two young children gets a few pounds from his universal credit. His parents have a good relationship with their grandchildren. I believe this is in part because they step up where their son fails too and provide nappies, milk, snacks for the children. They also care for them to days a week so that the mother can go to work and not have to spend money on childcare that she can't afford.

The reason that I mentioned the above was because I wondered if your dd's grandparents help with things like this? If they do not, what do they add to your dd's life? Could you trust them to take care of her if you needed them too or would they offer?

Your dd is the most important person here and if she wants to see them I would let her.

TiddlestheCat · 20/05/2020 08:18

I mean, for god's sake, if I were them I would be cutting my son out of my life and looking into every financial option to support their grandchild. For example, releasing any equity from their home, sending money, leaving everything in their will to her and not to him. Also, what about you rebuilding your life?? What if you wanted to? Oh, no you can't, because you have responsibilities!!! You don't have the freedom of time in which to go out and make a living. So I would tell them that, in no uncertain terms, that he already has an opportunity to rebuild his life in a way that you can't. That you are already subsidising his new life by providing him with free childcare (and point out how much that costs). Finally, what sort of dad prioritizes saving child maintenance over seeing his child?? My bet is that he sees it as handing money over to you, rather than his child and therefore resents it. Many men are like that! I would sit down and write them a letter. Get Mumsnetters to help.

Pandapotato · 20/05/2020 08:19

I can’t believe all the people on here saying “as long as she’s been provided for” and that the lie is “not harmful!”
There is more to life than money and your dd will be emotionally damaged by being abandoned, physically, emotionally and financially, by her father.
Her grandparents are facilitating that damage. I would not be allowing them to see her unsupervised or very often if at all.

OoohTheStatsDontLie · 20/05/2020 08:19

I dont know what I'd do OP it's a really tough situation.

Are you managing ok financially without maintenance? As in is it a case of your daughter going without basics or going without luxuries? If you found him, do you think you would get maintenance? As if the child support people can't find him it would suggest he is self employed or working cash in hand or something anyway which might mean he still refuses to pay even if you found him? What would cutting contact with them achieve, do you think it would guilt them into telling you, or they still wouldnt tell you and your daughter would have lost their grandparents?

I think if your daughter enjoys seeing them then on balance I'd continue contact as I think cutting contact will mostly just make you feel better rather than lead to a good result. But I know it's easy to say that when I'm not in the situation. I'd also keep pestering them. I dont understand why they think their son is more deserving of money than your daughter. How long are they going to give him to 'build up his life' while not contributing to his daughters!?

WorriedMutha · 20/05/2020 08:20

If I were you I would move away and not tell them where you are.

CrazyTimesAreOccurring · 20/05/2020 08:20

@JessicaDay - spot on post

Dumbie · 20/05/2020 08:21

I think you are being Very unreasonable.

Yes, he's being a shit and it's disgusting.
Its not down to them to get involved in the money situation. If they want to maintain a relationship with their son, dobbing him in to you or the maintenance people is not going to help that and then he may cut them off to.

Do they indirectly make up for the shortfall? Buying clothes? Taking her on trips? Presumably her going to grandparents gives you a bit of time to yourself?

It may be really really frustrating, but the money is totally separate to a relationship.

I was that child growing up, and I am very grateful to mum for enabling the very special relationship I have with my grandparents.

Liverbird77 · 20/05/2020 08:22

@fuckinghellthisshit your reply is the bomb! You are my hero of today! Bloody brilliant!

Annamaria14 · 20/05/2020 08:23

I think you should let her see the grandparents. Him not paying maintenence is not the child's fault. Try to put her first. If she enjoys seeing the grandparents - that is the right thing to do for her.

Well done on putting her first so far and letting her see them. It sounds like it is working well as it is.

You sound like a great mum