To say I don't care what genitals the person in the next loo cubicle has...

[coronaandtired]

And that most people probably don't either?

I'm sick of the transphobia on Mumsnet, and fed up of how it seems to be fine on here to go after trans writers such as Juno Dawson, who is writing from their own experience and imagination, and absolutely allowed to publish whatever the fuck they want.

@Rowantree2020 49% of the global population are female yet you really expect that all of those people should be expected to compromise for what...less than 000.5% of the population?

...WHY?

What mental gymnastics are you performing to justify that? When you can see pages and pages of women here saying they aren’t happy with the proposed compromises??

You might answer this to @LemonadeAndDaisyChains

*Too

I do care - less about toilets but certainly changing rooms, sports, rape centres, prisons, female awards etc. I'm with many others on here - never used to have an isssue but it is different now. I actually wouldn't have a problem with anyone post op sharing spaces but an intact male shouldn't be entitled to access female spaces.

You've changed your tune Rowantree2020

Or do you still maintain Mumsnet is little more than an anti-trans echo chamber whilst also respecting the fact that we care about the subject?

I care. My rights to single sex toilets are not yours to give away.
My 80 year old mother also cares very much and if all multi cubicle facilities were mixed sex she would not go out. Her freedom is not yours to give away either.

And I care very much on behalf of my early teen daughter. If I thought male bodied people could enter the ladies unchallenged I would be very reluctant to let her go to the toilet unaccompanied. Her rights to single sex facilities are not yours to give away.

If you want to relieve yourself in the gents, go ahead. I'm not stopping you.

I have now changed my opinion about gender recognition certificates as well. Nobody should be allowed to have the falsehood that they have actually changed sex made into law. They biological sex of that person should always be readily available and noted. We wouldn't be in this position now with with males being able to compete against females in women's Sports for example if that was the case.

PrincessConsueIaBananaHammock
I note the DM article fails to mention that Stefonknee has a sexual relationship with both her "adoptive parents". They are a consenting adult regardless of the age they identify as so are free to have sex with whoever they like but I'm not sure being a child's playmate and grandparents sexual partner is a particularly wholesome message to be sending the grandchildren. I wonder if it normalises adult/child sex for the grandchildren.

I care, I just don’t want willies in public female toilets. I’m not transphobic, I have lots of sympathy for people who are genuinely trans, but I don’t see why m to f pre op trans people can’t use disabled toilets.

And nobody should be able to change their birth certificate. Again that is a factual legal document recording the fact that a female baby for example was born on a certain date. To be able to change that birth certificate retrospectively to say that a male baby was born is absolutely ridiculous and I cannot understand why it is allowed.

I care. I want women to be able to feel safe from predatory men who know an opportunity when they see it. There are probably far more predatory men than there are transwomen and there are definitely a lot more women who want to feel safe.

I care
I care that I and my daughters have single sex spaces because they are SAFER for women & girls.

If you don’t care you should still listen to the other women who do care because consent is not transferable.

Toilets, changing rooms, hospital wards, prison, shelters etc etc all historically single sex because that is safer for women & girls - that hasn’t changed.

I don’t care what genitals people using the toilet next to me have. I care that they’re not a mink and aren’t going to leave a shitty/pissy/bleedy mess behind.

I don’t see why m to f pre op trans people can’t use disabled toilets

Cos disabled people fought for years to get what is one toilet out of god knows how many which is never enough as it is without perfectly able bodied people who are capable of using the correct sex segregated facilities taking up their precious , much needed and hard fought for space.

Their rights arent anyones to give away either

I’m still waiting for the screenshots of the ‘transphobia’ that is rife on Mumsnet. 914 posts later and still not one.

As I’ve said, I have no problem with it, but I recognise that many women do. As other posters have said, this isn’t just about toilets but a whole host of issues. Its not in my nature to just point blank refuse to engage without exploring all the options. There might be solutions out there that don’t necessarily involve women giving up their space or their security. And no I’m not saying I have the answers, but I would be willing to search for them.

Rowan
Remind me which group were determined there would be no debate. Women were very amenable to dialogue but were shut down with accusations of transphobia, our patience wore thin so now I'm totally fine with "no debate" and will not compromise by negotiating away women's rights and protections.

@Rowantree2020 there are solutions. Third spaces and the compromise of accepting that feelings don't trump a woman's discomfort/safety. TRAs trample all over the second point and refuse to acknowledge or accept the first.

Maybe ask yourself why they want women's spaces rather that a third space.

@pertella I don’t think you could argue it’s a pro-trans echo chamber. Of all the posters here there are only a couple supportive of the OP’s post or neutral. Perhaps that reflects the RW? Or perhaps just this site.

I don't want men in women's single-sex facilities (and any and all other single-sex services and facilities), because men are not women, and never ever can be women. They are men.

If some men are getting grief off other men, in men's single-sex spaces - then that's up to men to sort that out between themselves. It's nothing at all to do with women.

We're just saying No to men in women and girls' single-sex spaces

There might be solutions out there that don’t necessarily involve women giving up their space or their security. And no I’m not saying I have the answers, but I would be willing to search for them.

Then they’re solutions for “trans folk” to find, not women.

Did you realise your name is very similar to that of a long-standing FWR poster? What a weird coincidence.

Perhaps that reflects the RW? Or perhaps just this site.

It reflects real world. I have yet to meet anyone not totally shocked that women have been reduced to descriptions of their physiological functions so that they are not seen as exclusionary.
Yours a menstruator

@FOJN I don’t agree with much of what they’re demanding and have no truck with any side that plays the no dialogue card. I don’t think we do ourselves any favours by copying them on that front.

What a weird coincidence.

Do you think so? Just more goady nonsense imo.

Do you think so? Just more goady nonsense imo.

Very much in keeping with the spirit of the thread, I suppose. “Ha ha, I’m ping to appropriate your NAME”.

@nolongersurprised no and I don’t know what FWR is! I’m not even a particular supporter of the trans agenda. I don’t have a major problem with the OP’s statement, although some of the debate here is persuasive (other contributions less so!). Overall I’d be willing to engage to try to find a solution. That would obviously require considerable compromise on the other side. If there isn’t one then fair enough. I believe in dialogue.