To say I don't care what genitals the person in the next loo cubicle has...

[coronaandtired]

And that most people probably don't either?

I'm sick of the transphobia on Mumsnet, and fed up of how it seems to be fine on here to go after trans writers such as Juno Dawson, who is writing from their own experience and imagination, and absolutely allowed to publish whatever the fuck they want.

@PrincessConsueIaBananaHammock no obviously not.

Trans women are by definition male. Males are demonstrably a threat to women. If you "dont care" who is in the next cubicle, then I invite trans women not to care about invading women's room. Why should they make pests of themselves if they are not wanted?

The toilet issue can be resolved by either an extra option ie gender neutral, or my suggestion of moving away from communal models to single cubicles where women can feel safe. I've never really understood the social aspect of toilets but that's just me - I want to deal with the bodily function and go somewhere else to socialise that doesn't smell of pee or vomit or whatever.

Toilets are a solvable red herring amongst the plethora of other safeguarding issues that really matter and it could be done via architecture / planning.

The other issues don't require compromise by bio women - bio women keep their safe spaces and other provision should be made to accomodate the needs of other sexes / genders preferably set up by and managed by those of the same sexes or genders who understand the issues much as women want other women to support them when they are vulnerable.

If it is more important for a TW to validate themselves by using Bio womens spaces rather than getting help tailored to their specific needs which are physically and likely emotionally different to bio women then they are not according the respect to women that they demand from women. That is the problem.

I care because I was sexually assaulted in a women’s toilet by a man. So frankly I don’t give a crap what you think about it. I CARE.

Yawn. I'm not transphobic either. I just don't want a man in my immediate space. My own family don't get that close within a bathroom setting so i don't want a stranger man there either.

I actually had to use a non gendered toilet in a service station a few months ago. I didn't realise until as I was coming out a man was at the sink and another coming in. All of us looked uncomfortable.

It's not normal to have same sex spaces in bathrooms. Women and men are entitled to their own space. Gender neutral toilets need to be in a stand alone room only.

Women don’t need the prefix “bio” .

I agree @SirVixofVixHall - it's a bad habit I've picked up.......

@coronaandtired

woman with a penis

You lost people at this. This can fuck off. No such thing.

I've been hit, thrown to the ground, choked during sex and had my throat grabbed in public by a man (all the one guy, piece of shit that he was).

They are not welcome in our single sex spaces. NOT just toilets. Refuges, rape crisis centres, group work sessions for women, support groups, all of these.

Women's spaces are for biological women (trans men included).

We did compromise. TW have used female facilities for years, later with the GRA they got legal rights to be treated as women in most situations, single sex exemptions maintained women's rights. It did not cause the issues we are seeing now.
So no I will not compromise again.

woman with a penis

Right. Like a millionaire with no money in the bank.

There is no such thing. A woman is an adult human female, no Y chromosome, therefore no penis.

That is not transphobia, that is fact, like that the sun sets in West and rises in the East and Polaris is fixed in space.

It's not up to women to come up with compromises to address an issue faced by TW from men. We're perfectly entitled to say this is an issue for men to sort out among themselves so long as they don't encroach on women's spaces or rights. If it doesn't matter what genitals the person in the next cubicle has then there's no problem with TW continuing to use the mens.

*only using this terminology because of MN rules, does not imply TWAW

Seems lots of women are very keen to maintain single sex spaces.

mobile.twitter.com/bc_Sanders/status/1262101440899747841

A few places just have individual toilet rooms if you like which anyone can use and there’s no threat to others because it’s your own personal room rather than a cubicle. I don’t mind that whatsoever but do mind sharing the standard cubicle toilets with men.

Right. Like a millionaire with no money in the bank.

Or a quadruple amputee with all four limbs.

A blind person with perfect vision.

So many possible examples. It's almost as if the very words are a contradiction...

Should add the link in my post at 22.43 was retweeted by a TW which is where I saw it.

I care a great deal.

Soontobe60

I don’t believe this celebrity has any difference in sexual development (I could be wrong). They are very well known for their transition but now classify themselves as ‘cis’ (their term, it is not one I use). I mention it to highlight just how far it has gone to use ‘new/modern’ scientific theories to further someone’s agenda without that theory being adequately reviewed. And yes, there is plenty of ‘what about DSD’ as justification.

Seems lots of women are very keen to maintain single sex spaces.

It's similar to a recent survey where a high percentage (53%) of young women 16-34 agreed TWAW but then in a later question a higher percentage (80%) also stated that TW with penises shouldnt be allowed in female changing rooms.

So, it seems that for some 'TWAW until it's my comfort that's at risk'.

Genuinely interested, OP, in whether you would currently go on a men’s toilets or changing rooms?

I am not transphobic.
I don't want any transperson to come to harm or be treated badly for being trans. I would happily talk to them, work with them, socialise with them.
But sex matters and I will not give up my right to sex-segregated spaces and services.

I care.

What voiceofreason said

Nope.. I care. If you have a penis go to the men's room.. not interested in how you 'feel' .

Personally I don’t care, but I respect the fact that so many people on this discussion do.

I care , but what I don't care about is who that pisses off!