To say I don't care what genitals the person in the next loo cubicle has...

[coronaandtired]

And that most people probably don't either?

I'm sick of the transphobia on Mumsnet, and fed up of how it seems to be fine on here to go after trans writers such as Juno Dawson, who is writing from their own experience and imagination, and absolutely allowed to publish whatever the fuck they want.

@yelyah22

Please explain what it is to be a woman and how trans women fit within the description of women.

I look forward to seeing the OP post the next installment of their donation to Mermaids. Might end up being the full £100! (minus the £16, obvs)

I take it the earlier screenshot was meant to stop the thread from progressing?

@isabellerossignol because generally people try to resolve conflict by finding a middle ground with each side making compromises. At the moment there doesn’t even seem to be a willingness to make constructive suggestions or explore options.

@Rowantree2020 because they don't want just the toilets. They want access to ALL female only spaces.

So no we can't focus on and compromise on toilets only.

TRAs want female beauticians to wax their genitalia.
They want access to female changing rooms in shops, gyms, swimming pools etc.
They want access to female prisons.
They want access to female shelters and refuges.
They want jobs as rape supporters/counsellors.
They want traumatised women to accept them in intimate medical examinations.
They want to be in women's sports.
They want to win women's awards, promotions,grants etc.
They want lesbians to sleep with them.
They want to be included in women's only gym/swimming sessions.

It can't be just about toilets because they don't want just the toilets.

At the moment there doesn’t even seem to be a willingness to make constructive suggestions or explore options.

Many women are saying no to having men in their same sex spaces. They are allowed to say no. There doesn’t need to be a compromise, men just need to accept this.

I also want the right to ask for a female to examine me in certain medical situation

See, this is where women differ.
I appreciate you wanting a biological woman to examine you.
I as a biological women couldn't care less if a bio woman, a trans woman, or a man examined me.
We all think differently.
As we're not all a hive mind!
If you go to the trouble of specifically asking for a female doctor, how likely is it they'll send a trans woman to examine you?
You're likely to get a bio woman.

The bottom line is really that some men "feeling uncomfortable" (or not) in the men's toilets has somehow become the problem of girls and women. Why? It's nothing to do with us! That's why I just won't discuss any form of "compromise" or justify why I'm keeping what's legally mine.
Men need to sort out their own problems.

Rowantree2020

There is a compromise.
A 3rd space.
A 3rd sports category.

A 3rd business and political category.

The trans community refuse that and instead DEMAND validation of their chosen sex despite the distress trauma and disadvantage this causes to others.

@Winesalot
Particularly since at least one of the celebrity transwomen has declared that they are a true biological female and not a transwoman. Why? Because hormones while they were in the womb meant they were in the wrong body completely at birth and were always a female, just 'assigned male at birth

You're talking abut DSD. That's totally different to trans. No one is 'born into the wrong body'. Some females feel happier identifying with the usual gender characteristics of males, ditto some males with females. That's what gender dysphoria is. Everyone is born WITH a body of a specific sex as determined by sex chromosomes with the exception of DSD babies. Some DSD babies do not realise they have this condition until their teens.
www.nhs.uk/conditions/differences-in-sex-development/

If you go to the trouble of specifically asking for a female doctor, how likely is it they'll send a trans woman to examine you?

Are we at this never happens stage now?

Well how many times do you think it's acceptable for it to happen?

nolonger yes, I noticed that too.

I am willing to explore all solutions that do not remove sex based rights

I am unlikely to give much credit to solutions that do remove sex based rights because
Solutions that create more problems than they solve are not solutions

LemonadeAndDaisyChains

If you go to the trouble of specifically asking for a female doctor, how likely is it they'll send a trans woman to examine you?

It's happened already link

And still no answer to the question what is a woman?
I would like to know as I need to understand if there are

Trying to hit delete and hit post
Please ignore second line

In the end we will have to compromise. Better to be on the front foot and put options on the table. But I appreciate many will never agree. I don’t think sticking heads in the sand whilst shouting “no no no” is going to work in the long term, but who knows?

You may not care but many women do. You don't get to throw all of us under the bus.

Women's rights aren't transphobic.

But what does compromise look like?

Many people have suggested Male, female and neutral as options , is that an ok compromise? Or have you an actual suggestion you would like to raise?

In the end we will have to compromise.

Actually no we dont.

Women have compromised enough.
We dont have to compromise when it means losing what we have fought over 100 years for.

Males are males and always will be.
They need to stay in their lane or find a new one but I am not compromising my rights or my space.

They can fuck off.

@Rowantree2020 at which point should we stop compromising?

Being sued for refusing to wax male genitalia?
Rapists in women's prisons?
Male bodied people in communal changing rooms?
Male bodied people in refuges in shelters?
Playing rugby against a male bodies player?

I don't want men in women's rooms.

@Rowantree2020

@LemonadeAndDaisyChains

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3356084/amp/I-ve-gone-child-Husband-father-seven-52-leaves-wife-kids-live-transgender-SIX-YEAR-OLD-girl-named-Stefonknee.html

Would you accept Stef as your child's friend? Invite them over for a sleepover? Have a playdate in the park? Take them swimming?

In the end we will have to compromise

Please stop being disingenuous.

You don't want compromise, you want capitulation.

Soontobe60 no, they are talking about a transwomen who is now claiming they are actually a 'cis'woman.