To say I don't care what genitals the person in the next loo cubicle has...

[coronaandtired]

And that most people probably don't either?

I'm sick of the transphobia on Mumsnet, and fed up of how it seems to be fine on here to go after trans writers such as Juno Dawson, who is writing from their own experience and imagination, and absolutely allowed to publish whatever the fuck they want.

I like having a single sex loo, but I'm happy to accept transwomen as being women.

I don't think a predatory rapist would be put off attacking from a single sex loo, it's just thst I think women's toilets are nicer.

But I'd like cubicles to not have a gap at the bottom.

Why do you think we have single sex toilets, changing rooms and hospital wards OP?

I don’t care either. What I do care about is being able to go to the loo alone whenever I feel like it without being afraid of being raped or otherwise assaulted. Segregating sexes in loos helps me feel safe. It’s not transphobia to worry that a man will stick on a pink shirt and try to use women’s loos to assault women by pretending to be trans.

Can you define transphobia please?

You don’t have the right to force me into accepting cock in female spaces. Trying to bully, manipulate or cajole someone into accepting something that makes them feel unsafe, uncomfortable or undignified is called grooming. You should look at why you feel that is acceptable. Maybe you should consider getting some counselling?

Juno Dawson, who is writing from their own experience and imagination, and absolutely allowed to publish whatever the fuck they want.

Accepting criticism for your writing is a very important emotional skill that any writer should develop. If Juno can’t handle criticism, Juno should either consider is a Juno is in the right ‘career’ or consider if Juno’s writing is good enough to stand on its own merit. Or possibly Juno is a shit writer. 🤷🏻‍♀️

No such thing as a woman with a penis.

@coronaandtired

I'm interested as to why if you've suffered from men in the past (I'm sorry to hear that) and you don't care if those with male genitalia identifying as female are near you, why you see this as something that "most people probably don't have a problem with either"?

Why should everyone else deal with things in the same way that you have?

I hugely respect your resolve, or however you are couching this, but I think it's mildly disrespectful at best to the lived experience of other women, who have suffered terror, real horror at the hands of men, and who as a result crave the sanctity of safe space.

Is it permissable to both acknowledge your courage (if that's the right word), but also accept that most women don't want to be right next to male strangers of any sort when they're changing a pad or performing a bodily function, as there is perhaps implied vulnerability there for some?!

No I don't really care who's in the next cubicle, unless they're a threat to me or anyone else in there.

I support the right of other people to care though, without having their thoughts and feelings ridiculed and invalidated, while being accused of doing the same to others.

So while I'm not saying trans people are sex attackers. I'm saying that unisex toilets make it easier for a sex attacker to lurk about unchallenged and for that reason alone they shouldn't be allowed.

And this is a valid concern.

I don't care what genitals anyone has. Only if those genitals will be used to assault me or anyone else.

Opening the door to men in women's safe spaces leaves a loophole where those with bad intentions can access victims more easily.

A trans woman quietly using a female toilet is no problem whatsoever and anybody who has an issue with that is a twat. However, there is a small section of society that exploit rules in order to harm others and allowing men into women's bathrooms raises the possibility of that.

I have no objection to people dressing living however they like but women have been assaulted in public toilets and there seems to be no concern for them. In fact every barrier to having anyone walk into any toilet regardless of how they identify (because how can you measure that) seems to be being removed.

That isn't right.

Not willing to pretend that males aren’t responsible for most sexual/physical abuse. Not willing to ignore safeguarding

Its primarily about whether you believe in gender dysphoria. If you believe a trans woman is a woman or a man in a dress.

It really isn't this. It is possible to believe gender dysphoria is real without believing that a transwoman is a woman. Because what makes a person a woman is their biology, not their beliefs.

However people can dress however they want and I would encourage this.

I'm pretty sure no transgender folk give a flying fuck about your messy periods @nolongersurprised**

Why is it always “folk”? Every time.

There’s something about a shared experience that minimises embarrassment though, isn’t there? A period is something a transwoman will never experience.

Transwomen ARE women. So your arguments that it is no longer a “single sex” space are invalid. And the number of times someone pretending to be trans to assault someone in a toilet is NEGLIGIBLE compared to the violence that trans people are faced with daily. So many disgusting opinions on this thread.

Thing is, coronaandtired like so many others, you’ve considered this issue entirely from your own perspective with not a thought in your head about other people affected, except those who want to identify into female spaces of course. It shouldn’t surprise me any more, but I still find it utterly astounding...

I like the idea of family loos (increasingly common in the Middle East where I live) . Two cubicles and a exterior door that locks. I don't even let my pre-teen sons use the mens alone.

I'll just leave this here....

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/seven-sex-attacks-in-womens-jails-by-transgender-convicts-cx9m8zqpg

"Transgender prisoners are five times more likely to carry out sex attacks on inmates at women’s jails than other prisoners are, official figures show."

FIVE times.

And people are happy to project onto all women and say "yeah, most women wouldn't care if someone was in a shared space next to them" etc...

I just can't even

I don't care. There was a massive hoohaa created in a former workplace about a transwoman using the women's toilets. And it was all down to one woman. Nobody else in the whole place was bothered.

That one woman was also the most self centred arsehole I have ever had the displeasure to work with. I'm not saying that's a reflection on anyone else that has an issue with this, everyone has their own reasons, but it was a huge part of her issue. She wasn't happy unless she was stirring up shit somewhere.

To women that don't want transwoman in their toilets, are you happy for transmen to be in yours? Because surely it goes both ways?

@pjj1986

What do you think of the stats I posted above?

I care.
I have a DP and when out shopping etc he's extremely distracting and wants to rush through the 'chore' of shopping. Toilets are generally the most respite/thinking time I get when out with him.
If we had unisex public toilets I would forget to get half the things I went out for!

I'm pretty sure no transgender folk give a flying fuck about your messy periods

Hmm, google Jonathan/Jessica Yaniv and if you really want to dig deep I believe there's whole forums dedicated to how to have a realistic "period" if you're a TW, complete with advice on how to get hold of second hand sanitary wear. Yes really! Videos on YouTube too. Good luck!

Actually there is a whole sub section of trans women who fetishise periods and do give a great deal of fucks about them. I don’t want these people in the next cubicle to me.

Also love how it’s women giving up their space again. Where’s all the stuff asking men to give up theirs?

All of the buildings I'm working on where they are going for neutral toilets, they are changing both Male and female toilets. Why is that only women giving up their space?