To ask what employers will think when people refuse to send their kids back to school?

[ArgumentativeAardvaark]

Quite a lot of people on MN are business owners or senior managers. The general mood seems to be shifting towards parents deciding not to send their kids back to school when they re-open.

Many employers have, rightly, been happy to make allowances for employees working at less than full ability/hours while they have had children at home needing care. Do you think that tolerance is likely to change if an employee has school or nursery available but chooses not to use it?

I disagree that the general mood 'seems to be shifting towards parents not sending their kids back to school'.

Only one of my friends is doing that (and she's a teacher!!) and every other parent I know is desperate to send their kids back.

"Quite a lot of people on MN are business owners or senior managers." Are they?

I think so, fair enough when everyone was in the same boat,but when it becomes a choice I think it's unreasonable. I wonder if when your income is threatened they'll begin to make different choices. If you want to home educate I suspect it won't work with employers in the long term.

My work have been very flexible and will continue to be but I doubt they would be as flexible if I was choosing to make it more difficult to work than it is at the moment. I will need flexibility until the schools are back full time so I need to come and go with them.

I don't mind whether my children go back physically or not. But I can't do my job and teach my children and I think most businesses won't tolerate parents having to homeschool for much longer.

Plus many of us working from home are delivering vital services to vulnerable people or for the country.

On a personal note I'll be sending my kids back. I say that as a SAHM I think they need to see their friends and teachers. We're all low risk though, lacking vulnerable relatives those more likely to be affected will I'm sure be making different choices.

It's game theory balancing risks and gains.

Yes, my employer expects me back full-time on the 8th of June. I am taking unpaid leave to cover 70% of my contracted hours on some weeks.

@crustycrab yes. There are lots and lots of threads in work and employment which are full of posts from people in these types of jobs.

Quite a lot of people on Mumsnet are not business owners or senior employers. Quite a lot are.

@womaninatightspot how is it game theory?

I disagree that the general mood 'seems to be shifting towards parents not sending their kids back to school'.

@Growingboys the BMA letter in support of the NEU recently published has caused a lot of consternation and digging in of heels. I can see that the way I phrased it suggested that this was now “the majority opinion” and I have no basis for saying that, I agree, but the voices of the “don’t send them in” thinkers are being heard more and more loudly.

I’m an NHS manager, if people choose not to send their children to school (rather than can’t for medical reasons) then any leave that would need to be taken will be unpaid.

The vast majority know that if they don't go back once school places are available they will at best be unpaid , but probably lose their job. Some will be able/prepared to do that, others won't.

I do think this is one of the things that's causing such frustration with teachers. It's ok to be saying what you will and won't do knowing that you have a secure job and are unlikely to have wages stopped.

@sauvignonBlanche even unpaid leave is still a pain though, isn’t it, because you need to find ways to cover the person’s duties?

Stolen from oz site @ Sultanarama

Our game with the virus
The nature of our strategic interaction with SARS-CoV-2 (which causes COVID-19) is one where it attacks us, and we interact with one another. The players are the virus, the community and our policymakers who (to an extent that depends on compliance) control some of the rules of the game – namely, how much we interact with one another.

The payoff to the virus is simple. It wants to infect as many of us as possible.

The payoffs to us are more complicated – a combination of health and economic effects.

Economists like to distinguish between games that are played once, games that are repeated more than once but where the rules, players, and payoffs are the same each time, and games where players move in sequence. What we are always interested in is the game’s equilibrium, and the payoffs to the players in that equilibrium.

What we are seeing right now in Australia, in terms of the health and economics outcomes, is an equilibrium phenomenon.

We’ve put in place certain social-distancing rules – not as strict as some jurisdictions but stricter and sooner than others – and the economy is taking a hit because of the measures.

Official data show we are “flattening the curve”.

It’s an interesting question. Whilst schools are likely to be part time / choppy I don’t see it being very different from an employers point of view as you might only have school a couple of days per week or half days but when it is back to “normal” then I would expect employees to send them in or take unpaid leave.

The vast majority know that if they don't go back once school places are available they will at best be unpaid , but probably lose their job.
The issue is also that it is advertised in the press exactly as "schools to open on dd/mm/yyyy". In reality, my YR and Y1 are likely to attend only for a couple of hours per week, and quite possibly not at the same time - the school does not foresee a full timetable. Also, no after school clubs. It will help a little bit, but not to the extent when I can do honest full time hours.

Only one of my three children is being offered a school place on 1st June - Thursday & Friday only and no breakfast or after school club so hardly helps with childcare anyway.

Childminders aren't allowed to do school pick ups.

Nurseries have been told to reduce numbers, prioritise 3 & 4 year olds and may have restricted hours.

It's not like everyone can choose to sling their kids into full time childcare and go in to the office on 1st June anyway?

I wouldn't expect employers to make allowances if staff are choosing not to use the childcare options available to them. Unpaid leave it will be potentially unauthorised.
I'm not sure re the 'majority opinion' either - they are louder but not necessarily the majority. In my area I know many will not send their kids back to school but that's possibly because there are many 1 income families in the town I live in anyway (or the other income is through flexible self employment). If both parents had a job to return to I'm sure the trend will be different

I guess that employers will also want evidence from the school if the class have to self-isolate for 14 days if one of them, or the teacher, tests positive (as per the guidelines).

I'm not sure re the 'majority opinion' either - they are louder but not necessarily the majority.

I already agreed with this @oblada.

It has to be bundled up in part of the decision making process doesn't it, if you choose not to send them back and then workplaces should be within reason to not accept a low standard of work anymore because you do have a choice. However, for those in households identified as being medically vulnerable then you would hope there was support coming from somewhere so they aren't forced back to school or work; but there are very few on a population level that applies to.

I totally disagree with your assessment of the general mood.

According to Mumsnet, everybody is on a six figure salary!

My business is looking to make redundancies and some might be voluntary. It’s all being discussed at the moment - we would do better to make redundancies and take on freelancers in sixth months or so if business is better. So sadly anyone not able to work for childcare will be first on the list.

I don’t think there’s any issue around employers continuing to make allowances where the childcare options genuinely remain restricted @firstmentat and @CaryStoppins.

I am sure that very few bosses really think that school is just going to be open full time from 1 June, and know that they have to understand individual circumstances. The question is more around situations where it is clear that available childcare is not being used.