To ask what employers will think when people refuse to send their kids back to school?

[ArgumentativeAardvaark]

Quite a lot of people on MN are business owners or senior managers. The general mood seems to be shifting towards parents deciding not to send their kids back to school when they re-open.

Many employers have, rightly, been happy to make allowances for employees working at less than full ability/hours while they have had children at home needing care. Do you think that tolerance is likely to change if an employee has school or nursery available but chooses not to use it?

What do you mean by "schools reopening" exactly? If you mean the 1st of June, do you know something we don't?
Or do you mean: the (unknown) day when schools will reopen and function in the same way they did last February? And no one knows when that will be...

Do you seriously expect people to go back to a full time job + commute whilst the children are spending 3 hours a day at school?

Do you know if breakfast club and afterschool clubs will be opened? Do you know that they will accommodate the same groups as usual, that include children from reception to year 6 here?
Who cares for the majority of parents who used to rely heavily on family members: usually elderly grand-parents for wrap-around care.

So until the school actually reopen FULLY, it's a completely moot point because it changes nothing for most workers.

@Doyoumind if the school was actually shut then the employer would have to make allowances though, I think. Would be clear that it was not the employee’s choice.

I am not sending my children into school until September at the earliest. I am due to give birth in Septmeber so am not planning to go into work until after my maternity leave now. I can work from home though (astrophysics research) so it isn't a problem for me.

@sandragreen
It is not necessarily being an arsehole. I actually understand my employer. The job has to be done, taking unpaid leave does not change this. Offering different flexible conditions to fit different circumstances, without proper legal due diligence due to the lack of time, only opens the doors to later discrimination/ constructive dismissal claims.

Ihavechildren we work as a team. They know I am fair and respectful. I am careful not to employ anyone who would fuck that up with jealous/petty behaviour.

aardvark I don't think any of my staff with children of primary age will be able to return to work in the office full time. For the reasons I posted above but will copy here for you...

1. They may not think it is safe at their particular school in terms of social distancing.
2. They may not have children in the year groups that are going back - so nothing will change.
3. I have work that can be done from home so they can do that.
4. I doubt all the breakfast/after school clubs will be available.
5. Those who rely on grandparents for wrap around care will still be unable to come back to work.

As I said before, the number of workers whose childcare issues will be magically solved because a couple of year groups can go back, but not in every school (as it's HT decision) is probably miniscule.

Unless you are planning to break guidelines on using grandparents or only work part time during school day, only have DC in the years that are going back etc etc

In the example above why do the 30 colleagues need to quarantine? Surely they shouldn't have been mixing with the colleague who tested positive?

@sandragreen your first reason is their choice/opinion.

Grandparents can be used as childcare. The guidance is only not to use them if vulnerable or over 70. There is so much misunderstanding about that.

firstmentat

You don't need to worry about that - we work in employment law

Some schools won't open for non key worker kids. Liverpool has already declared. Others may well follow.

The op hasn’t specifically mentioned June, has she?

Yes aardvark

As I said before, I respect my team and their risk assessment/decision making abilities.

You don't need to worry about that - we work in employment law
Then you know how sensitive and difficult this area is.

As I said before, I respect my team and their risk assessment/decision making abilities.
But not those of SAGE, LEAs, headteachers...

I'd say 70% of my friends / fellow parents at our school and others nearby don't plan to send them back.

Don't think any of them are mumsnetters either, and from all kinds of backgrounds.

@Nicknacky do you have a link to guidance about grandparents? I thought the rules were no mixing households unless it is paid for care eg a nanny.

There is one member of staff (who) says she can't return to work on 1 June because of her husband's diabetes and the need to shield even though he is going to work daily

I expect we'll see a lot more of this; in particular GPs will be rammed with folk who all expect "a letter" so they don't have to go back, each with a more ingenious excuse than the one before
The real irony is that pretty soon many won't have jobs to go back to, either because the company's gone completely or managers have put working parents first for redundancy

I'm not suggesting that's right of course - only that it's what could easily happen

It’s in the legislation, it is lengthy though. I was sent it through work and it’s one area i particularly paid attention to.

It’s not mixing household, it’s childcare.

Ultimately they will just loose their jobs.

Never seen so many people take a gun and en masse shoot themselves in the feet. Screaming for schools to remain closed under the sad illusion employers will say no worries you stay home, here’s your salary you can stay furloughed. Let me employ someone else to do your job or get the others to work extra to cover your work.

Yup and pigs will fly.

@OneandTwenty I have been clear through, including in my OP, that the question only applies to the situation where the childcare is available but the employee chooses not to use it. I have also said that my focus is more around smaller tolerances being afforded to those currently huddling childcare and work, rather than the assessment of the trigger for when the person might transition from not working at all to returning to work.

Juggling, not huddling.

But not those of SAGE, LEAs, headteachers...

Yes, that just about sums it up.

I think June 1st is unlikely to change much for the reasons sandragreen says. Nurseries are going to be open for longer though I think - mine isn’t truncating hours at all.

However as and when schools open for longer hours, I think a lot of employers will expect children to be sent in and productivity restored, or at least increased to reflect the level of school opening in place at that time. And I think that’s fair enough. Most people don’t have the luxury of deciding whether to send their children to school or not - key workers have done so throughout. The country does not have the luxury of it either, things need to get moving as soon as is possible or we are all in trouble.

Also an employment lawyer and I don’t think an employer would be acting unreasonably to dismiss anyone who still refused to come to work absent a reason such as shielding etc

Given only a few years ago back and many people have multiple children, I doubt a few classes opening will make a massive difference to working policies.

My employer has said work from home indefinitely, they fully understand that I will have DD at home till September and agree that it's my choice whether or not to send her back to school if it reopens pre-summer holidays.

The CEO is based out of the US and has said that with global differences they cannot and do not expect for people to have their children in childcare and as long as everyone continues to deliver against their objectives they're fine with it.

My DDs primary haven't announced their plan yet but if it's anything like other plans I've seen with kids separated into groups that may or may not be with their known teacher, stuck in a single room, limited toys and activities to reduce infection risk..... I won't be sending DD back to that for the sake of a few weeks when she's happy, healthy and engaged at home.