To ask what employers will think when people refuse to send their kids back to school?

[ArgumentativeAardvaark]

Quite a lot of people on MN are business owners or senior managers. The general mood seems to be shifting towards parents deciding not to send their kids back to school when they re-open.

Many employers have, rightly, been happy to make allowances for employees working at less than full ability/hours while they have had children at home needing care. Do you think that tolerance is likely to change if an employee has school or nursery available but chooses not to use it?

The op hasn’t specifically mentioned June, has she?

no, but what did the OP means exactly by "schools re-opening"?

You don't need to worry about that - we work in employment law

I’m sorry either you’re not being honest here or you’re not a lawyer and just work in a llp. Because what you’re posting would indicate you’ve no idea what you’re talking about. And smacks more of you personally wish to stay home with your kids.

Well we are recruiting people who can work

They will need paying so parents who choose to not come to work can do so,unpaid

The work still needs doing and it’s unfair on the childless or those with their life sorted, to place an extra workload on them. Why should they work extra hard with no extra pay?

My child's school has informed parents they are unable to administer first aid and so if they even need a plaster or an ice pack, parent will be called to administer, and the child will be left alone to wait for me to arrive.
WTAF Bernadette!
They are saying they will leave your 5/6 year old kid bleeding or with a swelling head bump for an hour while you travel back from work to do it?
That's mental.
Anyway, in answer to the question, as pp have said most years won't be allowed back anyway, the years that are will be part time, there won't be any wrap around care, and I'm pretty sure employers know all this.

I don't know. Have they even worked out have employers are to do with their shielded employees yet?

How

OneandTwenty For the vast majority of children it isn’t going to be 1st June. So the op sounds like a general musing and I’ve seen posts from parents who say they aren’t planning to send children back even in August/September.

However as and when schools open for longer hours, I think a lot of employers will expect children to be sent in and productivity restored, or at least increased to reflect the level of school opening in place at that time. And I think that’s fair enough.

Agree Newark. I really don't understand all this frothing from those who are in a position where they only have DC in the years that are going back in June/have no wraparound care issues. Why do you care if other people who aren't in your position or don't share your views don't send their DC back then? Surely you would be glad as that will make social distancing better for your children?

It's a tiny minority of children who will be joining those already attending school as they are children of keyworkers etc. And for just a few weeks until end of school year. Why all the angst and drama?

It’s tricky.
DH and I are both business owners. We both want to retain our employees. But we’ll struggle to keep those who won’t be able or willing to perform the majority of their functions soon.

If someone is refusing to come into work for any reason we would look at it individually.

I think I'd let them stay on furlough then look again at their job in September if they hadn't changed their postiosn.

Well one thing's for sure @Nicknacky and that's the risk won't be any different in September/the autumn. In fact most epidemics have a far bigger second peak. So the people who make my eyebrows raise are the ones (teachers and parents) who think September is some kind of magic wand.

Well one thing's for sure @Nicknacky and that's the risk won't be any different in September/the autumn

If schools are fully open in September i would expect my staff to send their children.

I’m sorry either you’re not being honest here or you’re not a lawyer and just work in a llp. Because what you’re posting would indicate you’ve no idea what you’re talking about. And smacks more of you personally wish to stay home with your kids.

My own kids are at uni Bluntness and yes, I work in Employment Law. What have I said that you think contravenes employment law? Having children isn't a protected characteristic. I would give men/women the same treatment. Seriously - what are you on about?

NeverTwerkNaked I totally agree and I’ve said the same thing on other threads.

I think I’m less tolerant to the hysteria as I’ve been working throughout in a high risk occupation and we are all just getting on with it without complaint. Which is unusual for us as we complain about everything normally 😂

Also an employment lawyer and I don’t think an employer would be acting unreasonably to dismiss anyone who still refused to come to work absent a reason such as shielding etc
My point was exactly the opposite - I think if the employer tried to accommodate every personal situation flexibly (small children and every individual school timetable, other caring responsibilities, health conditions, other vulnerability factors) without implementing a universe of new workplace policies, they can find themselves in hot water later. Should I ask a healthy 60 year old BAME male employee to come to the office over a single parent of a small child, knowing that the former statistically has higher risk than many people in the shielding category?

My son is in reception, they announced their plan yesterday. My son has been offered 9:45-2:15 Monday to Wednesday, people can only collect children from one family unit (so childminders cannot do pickups), there will be no first aid provision (my son has asthma and a milk allergy), children will be in one classroom (which is fine) as their outdoor space is limited children will not go outdoors at all. Classrooms do not have sinks, there is on set of boys and one set of girls toilets, as adequate handwashing is not possible parents must send their child in with at least 100ml of appropriate handgel per day. Just getting 7 children to use the toilet with one going into the toilets at a time will take ages.

He isn’t going back, I’m in a very vulnerable group, he also isn’t safe if there is no one to administer to his epi-pen or assist with his inhaler. But if he did go back, I wouldn’t get to work until 10:05 and I would have to leave work at 1:50 to collect him.

His school is brilliant, I really worry how the staff are going to cope. If a child shows any covid symptoms (including any cough, and small children cough a lot!) that four or five year old will be shut in a room alone until they’re collected. People working schools didn’t sign up for that.

It's a tiny minority of children who will be joining those already attending school as they are children of keyworkers etc. And for just a few weeks until end of school year. Why all the angst and drama?

This is what I have been wondering! From this and from other threads along the same lines. Send your children back to school - I don't care! Why do you care if someone else doesn't send theirs back?

Why are you so keen for people to get the sack rather than have a compassionate employer who makes allowances so you can work from home or stay on furlough? I seriously don't get it.

The issue is that people can't go back to work if bit all year groups (primary go back) and if the ones that do go back, do so on a part time basis.

It's a moot point for us as the toddler is in the shielding group but I wouldn't want to be expected back to work if not all my kids were back in school. I mean would my MIL (who provides our childcare) be able to do so under the current guidelines?

Thankfully WFH with my company has been very successful and there are no immediate plans to send anyone back to the offices.

I work in HR so will probably be involved in policy on this although ultimately it's up to the directors.. I'd suggest where we can, we allow unpaid leave but if the role is business critical it would be refused and if the individual failed to attend work (for more than a week or two) it would be dealt with in line with our usually AWOL/ unauthorised absence procedure which ultimately would result in dismissal if not resolved.

I've worked the whole way through this with no fuss. I'd really like my staff to do the same. A couple have school aged kids and have been furloughed. When the furlough scheme finishes we could have them back part time (work can't be done at home) if that helps. If they refuse then sadly we might have to think about disciplinary options with a view to letting them go and employ others who can do the job. That would be an absolute last resort.

Unpaid leave wouldn't be an option as we will desperately need staff by September.

I’ve seen posts from parents who say they aren’t planning to send children back even in August/September.

the same does apply, when the schools reopen in September here - and a second lockdown and not school opening is not impossible either..., we have no idea of what will be offered then.

No one can tell me I can go back to work as "normal" when I don't even know what hours my kids will be offered, and what childcare will be available.

I have been fuming for years about the size of a school class (30 +), IF we decide to make smaller groups, who will teach them?

No one can tell me I can go back to work as "normal" when I don't even know what hours my kids will be offered, and what childcare will be available

We would try and work with you, but if schools were open and you were chooslng not to send them then we'd take a dim.view.

I think this is really interesting. I’m lucky because my work are flexible and I doubt we will be invited to return to the office anytime soon. However I have a 3-4 yo at pre-school, she also spends time with grandparents and me to cover childcare in the week.

We are undecided about June because I think it’s too early, but it will happen at some time. The biggest issue is that pre-school will close in mid-July and my summer cover (a related nursery) is not reopening until September (they aren’t even opening in June). Grandparents can’t obviously help so we will continue to work from home with her with us. So even if we do take up her place we will be back in the same position mid July.

No idea what reception will bring in September!!

Should I ask a healthy 60 year old BAME male employee to come to the office over a single parent of a small child, knowing that the former statistically has higher risk than many people in the shielding category?

No, I really wouldn't, assuming that's not hypothetical? Given the information we have now it could be a costly mistake. It's really interesting though and I anticipate we will be seeing lots of issues like this (when I get back to court, which still seems a way off)