To ask what employers will think when people refuse to send their kids back to school?

[ArgumentativeAardvaark]

Quite a lot of people on MN are business owners or senior managers. The general mood seems to be shifting towards parents deciding not to send their kids back to school when they re-open.

Many employers have, rightly, been happy to make allowances for employees working at less than full ability/hours while they have had children at home needing care. Do you think that tolerance is likely to change if an employee has school or nursery available but chooses not to use it?

I totally disagree with your assessment of the general mood.

Fair enough @GabriellaMontez, it is certainly not my mood so I am glad that you are hearing a louder majority opinion that is closer to mine.

There is still a significant cohort who think this way though, so it’s likely that the question will come up in people’s workplaces.

My employer fortunately understands that we are a long way from normal and it’s not just about getting them back to school but everything else has to fit into place too.
My 6 year old is due back in on 8th June (1st is still half term week here) but not my 9 year old so I will still struggle to work ‘as normal’.
School are proposing staggered start and finish times understandably but I will still struggle to work ‘as normal’
There is currently no wrap around provision and crucially no holiday club for the summer holidays so I could potentially have them both in school in a fashion only to have them back at home over the summer holidays. Depending on what September looks like working as normal may no longer exist.

Oh and a quick survey on the class WhatsApp group would suggest about 75% are currently happy to send their children in, one definitely no for shielding reasons the rest waiting to see how things pan out.

Everyone on MN only says they’re senior management. Who really knows.

what about if someone in the household is shielding or vulnerable? people having to take a risk they are unhappy with because losing their job would be catastrophic.

I think any employer worth their salt will understand it's a lot more nuanced than schools being 'open for business'. Ours haven't even asked us what we're planning to do and accept that this situation is not of our making. A lot of the senior management of which you speak also have kids and many of them don't want them in!

@D11y you’d tell your boss that though, surely, and it would feed into their assessment of what allowances to make for you.

People are ready doing that in so many sectors Di11y. Care homes and supermarkets to name 2.

My employers have been really supportive so far. I have a 4 year old who is currently in private nursery and I am waiting to hear what they are going to do if they get the green light.
My issue is that I am in the vulnerable group and although it doesnt seem to hit kids as hard (in general) he could still pass it on to me. I'd rather keep him home until he starts school in September but I guess if there is no vaccine by then (which is unlikely) it might not make much difference

Everyone on MN only says they’re senior management. Who really knows.

That’s true of anything anyone says on the Internet ever! I’m not an official pollster, doesn’t really matter who is commenting .

I think employers will let go of staff who dont come to work.

I think this will happen mainly to low paid workers in smaller companies.

I think this will suit the employers because there will be some shrinkage of business and the prospect of further lockdown (obviously a generalisation and my opinion).

Obviously some workers will be fine. Esp unionised. Such as teachers.

It depends doesn’t it?

The government have said if you can work from home you should. Now that many employers have implemented working from home a lot of people can continue to do so. The issue is whether they are meeting the business needs, if they are they I can’t see that where the children are is an business of the employer? Obviously it’s different if you’ve been furloughed because you have a job that can’t be done from home.

@incrediblytired I am talking about people who are doing less work than they would be able to do if they did not have children to look after/homeschool. The location of the work is not really relevant to the question.

Every business is different. Some may be able to keep going with workers at home, others might really require people in. Perhaps not all people, not all the time, but certain people in key roles on specific days.

There is a limit to any business's flexibility. There will come a point where if people are still refusing to go to work and their employer is saying they must come back, that they may be risking their jobs.

I'm expecting not to send my year 1 child back until at least September. I'm hoping either school opening is delayed or they only offer a part time place. It will then make it much easier to deal with the days he would have an opening at school.

My work are extremely flexible and are likely to continue to support me in taking the time off I need (paid). Less easy in my DH key worker role, at worst he'll be taking annual leave or unpaid leave to cover the gaps.

We're happy to take unpaid leave as necessary to protect him in the short term while they get a better school plan in place.

Employers - unless they are stupid - will realise that until September they cannot have staff with young and primary aged children in full-time as the children wouldn't be going to school/nursery full-time, and unless they are already going to a nursery/childminder there is no other childcare.

My child's school has informed parents they are unable to administer first aid and so if they even need a plaster or an ice pack, parent will be called to administer, and the child will be left alone to wait for me to arrive.

My employer has had no issue with my performance so far, so that won't change if
Dc stays home with me.

If they aren't happy with that, they can furlough me and give my duties to someone else.

I'm not sending my children into an environment where they won't even put a plaster on them.

I run a business. If people CHOOSE not to send their kids back and dont have a shielding letter from NHS/doctor etc then they wont be paid.

It really is as simple as that. If you dont want to return to work- thats totally fine. But you wont get paid. Our work cannot be done from home, if it could, we would do it, but it cannot.
I also cannot furlough people that are simply choosing not to work out of fear rather than due to a genuine medical reason. Therefore, they wont get paid.

Its not complicated.

Some may be able to keep going with workers at home, others might really require people in.

This is not just about people who need to go out to work in order to work effectively. Most people working from home with kids there are not working at full capacity, but many could work from home at full capacity if the kids were in childcare.

@ArgumentativeAardvaark
As I said in my post, I am expected to start doing full time hours on June 8th, and it was quite clearly communicated that no further leave will be granted.

As a manager, if people choose not to take children to school. They will be dismissed/made redundant. I won't offer unpaid leave because it's unfair on the colleagues who will have to carry their workload, I'd rather employ a new person.

@firstmentat apologies, I did not connect the post at 11:41 with your later one, didn’t see both posted by same username

DH and I were just talking about this, the staff where he works are due to return on 1 June to clear up a bunch of stuff and pack it into boxes and away into storage.

There is one member of staff on his team (he is her line manager's line manager) who stopped coming to work a week before lockdown citing the need to shield her husband who has Type 1 diabetes but is otherwise fit and well. I ran into her two days ago while we were both out for a walk (with her husband) and said he has been working throughout lockdown as he hasn't received a shielding letter and his employer expected him to come work unless a letter had been received. She says she can't return to work on 1 June because of her husband's diabetes and the need to shield even though he is going to work daily. Tough to sort that one out - let alone the rest of the team having to cover her work that still needs doing.

If school/nursery is available but you CHOOSE not to use it, it's unpaid leave

Yes, because where does it end? people could say they "dont feel comfortable working" until covid has been eradicated which could take years. You cant expect employers to just pay people endlessly for not doing any work. If they have a shielding letter thats different, but simply "not feeling comfortable" is not a luxury most of us have I'm afraid.

I think everyone has different circumstances , I don't think people can just flatly refuse to send dc to school if they have to work. You need to find a compromise, you can't expect a employer to be sympathetic for just saying no I'm not sending dc to school so furloughed me . If they need you to work then they need you to work so you'll need to have a option .