To ask what employers will think when people refuse to send their kids back to school?

[ArgumentativeAardvaark]

Quite a lot of people on MN are business owners or senior managers. The general mood seems to be shifting towards parents deciding not to send their kids back to school when they re-open.

Many employers have, rightly, been happy to make allowances for employees working at less than full ability/hours while they have had children at home needing care. Do you think that tolerance is likely to change if an employee has school or nursery available but chooses not to use it?

@crikeycrumbsblimey Sorry I missed one off the list

@MaggieFS

Phew 😅

Great post though - I’m dumbstruck people always assumes others have the same circumstances as them.

@crikeycrumbsblimey Thanks. I'm getting my tin hat ready because I've inevitably missed one or two options from the completely exhaustive list!

@BelfryBat I think I know what you're poking at, but it's not the cabinet ministers fault if the schools aren't opening. (Ignoring rights and wrongs of them choosing private school because I don't think that's the point in this thread) I think what's of more interest is who is looking after their children if they are working? Do any who have youngish children also have a full time working partner?

I think it will depend on the job and the employer/manager.

Also there’s reputational risk for employers to consider

Do you check the reputation of every company you buy from? What if they have had 40 years of great reputation then someone on Twitter gets the arse with them? What if the person with kids who has the hump wants to take precedent over a good employee with no kids who works hard and doesn't get emotionally incontinent on social media?

I’m interested to understand how schools will be safe in September. Or September 2021.

@crikeycrumbsblimey I am not “berating” anyone and I don’t for a minute assume that everyone’s circumstances are the same. I am not in any way suggesting that you are not coping admirably with working and caring for your child(ren). But, in the same vein, that is not everyone’s experience.

Threads like these are about opinion though, it’s not inappropriate to have one.

In general, I do have a concern, based on people whom I know personally, that a lot of people have been pushing themselves too far essentially doing two simultaneous full time jobs. Some employers have, I think, been too willing to let them keep doing that at the expense of their own physical and mental health. That is a separate (in fact, opposite) discussion from the schools going back/allowances being made question that I asked.

As an employer there is a big difference to what was the normal for employees who have kids who are in childcare but things have cropped up like sicknesses etc to now where there is no or very little childcare meaning they actually can't work.
Previously as an employer I like many would support them, there are statutory things in place to help occasional things happening but the impact now is much more full on, more working parents are in the position where they rely on school and wrap around care, or grandparents help to work or they can't work. They don't know exactly when this will change for certain and the business need their workforce to keep going or they go under.
I have all the empathy in the world being a parent but as a business owner I see that the support we once offered just can't be sustained to that level indefinitely. In my position it's not like I can step up and carry the slack as my kids aren't at school either and I'm in the same boat.
The furlough scheme won't last for ever that's curbing itself soon to and if schools aren't back then I will worry what will happen for business who have lots of parents in their workforce as the business has to be able to keep functioning regardless.
Being supportive of parent workers isn't going to go far enough I don't think.
I just hope it all becomes clearer soon as businesses may have to move on without them and with others who can work or the business just not manage long term.
There's no simple solution at the moment I don't think.

I think employers won’t necessarily know which school years each child is in. Unless employers ask which year each child is in and where they go they won’t know who COULD go back and who can’t.

I think, @Onceuponatimethen that a line manager would have to ask that question if an employee mentioned to him/her that they were still looking after kids at home. I can see how they might not know if the employee kept quiet about it.

I think if the school/childcare provision exists then parents should use it to enable them to work more efficiently. Any decent employer should understand this might not be perfect and some kids will only be going in part time, or that parents will have one child at school and one at home, and so carry on allowing flexibility.

But for those parents (notwithstanding shielding caveats etc) choosing not to send kids in from June... It just comes across as quite unprofessional- can you imagine contacting your employer near the end of your maternity leave to saying you aren’t happy with the nursery or childminders available and so you can’t do your contracted job?

Unfortunately I think I lot of people are still stuck in the ‘denial’ stage and are thinking everyone will magically revert back to normal in September. It won’t. This virus is something we will be living with for years to come, so people better get their head around risks, relative risk, etc (or at least listen to people who do understand these things) and essentially get on with their lives as much as they can. Which sounds harsh, but I really don’t see that we have any alternative.

Someone i know demanded furlough becuse her 14 year old son couldn't cook for himself so wouldn't be able to eat anything if she was at work. No SEN, just a 14 year old who was used to being waited on hand and foot.

I think a few people delude themselves thinking employers have an endless supply of cash to pay people who can't work. We have to keep the business going - people who can and want to work need to be protected too and if the business goes under - it will benefit no one.

@ITonyah

You can imagine an AIBU from their future partner about their complete ineptitude

This virus is something we will be living with for years to come, so people better get their head around risks, relative risk, etc (or at least listen to people who do understand these things) and essentially get on with their lives as much as they can. Which sounds harsh, but I really don’t see that we have any alternative.

I can't agree with you more. I did raise an eyebrow at the teaching unions telling teachers (and my DH is a teacher, so this is not teacher-bashing!) not to even engage in discussions with their schools about returning, and teachers cannot be expected to return to work until "it can be demonstrated that it is safe" and "no teacher should be expected to go into a school that is not safe" (this quoted from the letter NASUWT sent their members). I cannot see how this will ever happen, even with a vaccine, even with full PPE, even with one child per class.

Completely agree with you @Xiaoxiong
I haven't heard anything constructive from those digging their heels in - across the board. Just hyperbole and scaremongering.

Hey, if you are happy to send your own kids to test the water so the rest of us can see how it works, what it does to the rate of infection, how the children survive - and looking at medical testimonies it's not great - and how the school day is organised, I am grateful personally.

You CHOOSE to do something so I don't even have to, and I can make my own decision based on more information. I am not sure why are people so prickly about it - does it bother you that some of us take a step back for now? Pretty sure it doesn't impact on the strength of your own decision.

OneandTwenty Don’t be so ridiculously judgmental and OTT.

Nicknacky
it's funny you see my post as judgmental when you are actually doing me a favour. It's true, I don't have to decide to send my kids now because others are keen on sending theirs first.

Kids go back in June, I have 3 months to see the impact and decide what I am doing I fail to see the angst when it works out well for me.

OneandTwenty It’s all in the phrasing, isn’t it. Hopefully out children survive and then you can decide what to do.

how the children survive - and looking at medical testimonies it's not great

Can you elaborate on this please? My understanding is that the morbidity rate in April 2020 for under 20 years old is so small it's statistically 0, the rate for 20-24 is 3.9 per million (ie. 0.0000039%) and the rate for everyone under 65 is 284 per million (ie. 0.000284%).

Data from here: www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsinvolvingcovid19englandandwales/deathsoccurringinapril2020

Happy to be corrected.

If i had my wish, the whole thing would magically disappear and we all go back to normal tomorrow!

The whole debate about what people do about their own children is just tedious, if you are sure you make the right decision, what others decide won't make any difference. You don't need a unanimous choice to feel you are right, do you?

Ironically, things are only working because people are making different choices. Schools wouldn't be able to reopen in full in a week or so if ALL the parents suddenly sent their kids back.
Other parents wouldn't step back so easily if they didn't have a chance to see what is happening.

Win win.

Xiaoxiong

and what about the statistics about survival? And the long term effect of the disease?

Some people insist on presenting everything in black and white, it's a little bit more complicated than that isn't it? Some of us are interested in a little bit more than our kids merely "surviving".

OneandTwenty Gosh, you love your children more than I love mine.

And it was you that used the word “surviving”

Many of us don’t share the same level of hysteria that you seem to have.

Nicknacky
funny how again you call it hysterical Are you not so sure about making the right decision? Would it make you feel better if I had made the same choice, that's the problem?

As far as I can see, the lockdown has been pretty much lifted but I can wait to see the impact before deciding about my kids. I don't really care what you think.
Parents of the children, partners of the teachers or teachers themselves being squeezed together in public transport.. might have an impact on the rate of infection. It might not. It might rise to an acceptable level, it might not.

I'll just wait and see. Calling me hysterical because you dismiss all potential risks and are in a rush to send your own kids back to school... says more about you than it says about me but has no impact on me