To ask what employers will think when people refuse to send their kids back to school?

[ArgumentativeAardvaark]

Quite a lot of people on MN are business owners or senior managers. The general mood seems to be shifting towards parents deciding not to send their kids back to school when they re-open.

Many employers have, rightly, been happy to make allowances for employees working at less than full ability/hours while they have had children at home needing care. Do you think that tolerance is likely to change if an employee has school or nursery available but chooses not to use it?

My employer is giving people one paid day off to arrange childcare. After that, it's come to work as normal or don't get paid.

Xi I'd just state to her she needs to produce the government shielding letter, if she does not is unable to or he doesn't have one, she must attend work. Failure to attend work will result in disciplinary action.

You know she's lying, call her bluff on it.

These employers who are now.saying "your dc can go to school so come into work" - are you then reducing your employers hours to fit in with the school day? When the summer holiday comes round are you putting them back on furl9ugh?

You cant expect employers to just pay people endlessly for not doing any work.

I agree with that, but there is a more nuanced version of the problem too I think. People whose duties have been reduced (with no pay adjustment) because they can’t work as many hours. People who have been told it’s OK that they don’t hit their targets or performance objectives because they have childcare responsibilities. People whose colleagues know their attention to detail might be a bit less reliable because the report was drafted with a toddler tugging at their sleeve.

The smaller things, not just the binary can/can’t work situation.

I'd just state to her she needs to produce the government shielding letter, if she does not is unable to or he doesn't have one, she must attend work

Yes, she does and the reason for that is not her employer being awkward. HMRC will be investigating furlough payments and if an employer has claimed money from the government for furloughing employees then they are going to want to see proof she had to be furloughed. Her employer is really stupid for not asking for proof. HMRC can fine employers or instigate audits for companies who they feel wrongly asked for furlough money when it wasnt necessary.

Yes, that's what we're seeing unfortunately Xiaoxiong Some people staying away from work citing the need to shield and then not actually being very particular about the shielding. Colleagues have mostly been very understanding but it will wear thin as things start getting back to normal, especially if people think it's being abused.

I even had one "shielding" member of staff taking full pay from us to stay at home, who took a temporary job in a very high customer contact role Not very bright, that's how he got caught, when a colleague was one of the customers.

I won't be expecting any of my team to send children to school. I certainly wouldn't.

1. They may not think it is safe at their particular school in terms of social distancing.
2. They may not have children in the year groups that are going back - so nothing will change.
3. I have work that can be done from home so they can do that.
4. I doubt all the breakfast/after school clubs will be available.
5. Those who rely on grandparents for wrap around care will still be unable to come back .

I think it's a minority who will be in a position where all their childcare issues will magically disappear when a couple of year groups go back.

School & childcare aren’t going to be available “as normal” until September earliest, maybe not til next year.

@ArgumentativeAardvaark that doesnt apply to us because our work cannot be done from home. Not even a bit of it. We have been operating all through lockdown as we are key workers so our company hasn't closed.

Sure @AlexisCarringtonColbyDexter. Would be interesting to hear from people to whom it does apply.

I don't personally know any one who is employed and not planning to send their kids back. The only people are know who are opposed to schools opening

1. Teachers
2. Have a stay at home parent in the house
3. Are furloughed for the foreseeable future
4. Are unemployed

Everyone else I speak to are very keen for the kids to go back because they need to work.

Saying they won't send them to school will soon change when they are threatened with the sack.
It's not the employers responsibility to keep people on without childcare.
They want the job doing, by somebody capable, not someone at home with their kids.
We'd all like jobs like this, surely.
I wouldn't send one of mine if mine were those ages, I'd have to give up work, or dh would, or we'd both go pt, i suppose.

@sandragreen

3. I have work that can be done from home so they can do that.

This only applies to those people whose kids can be relied upon not to reduce their ability to work in any way though, surely? Otherwise you are making allowances for them to some degree (altered hours, longer deadlines, reduced duties etc).

@Oysterbabe quite.

I totally agree Alexis. I think this WILL last for years and we will have to get used to living with it, so people are going to have to make difficult decisions.

Unpaid leave I guess.

It's probably best not to think the noisy, doom-mongering minority represent everyone, but yes - employers will have little sympathy if they think the motivation is just a bit more paid time off work

In some cases they wouldn't be wrong to think that, and it's hard to blame them when they see petitions for a minimum 3 months extension of maternity leave at such a time

Sometimes people don't help themselves and working parents aren't exempt from that, but fortunately it'll all work itself out when they start to find no work means no pay

I’ll leave this here. Have a think about what it means.

This only applies to those people whose kids can be relied upon not to reduce their ability to work in any way though, surely? Otherwise you are making allowances for them to some degree (altered hours, longer deadlines, reduced duties etc).

Yes - of course. I am a good manager. I do feel very sorry for those of you working for arseholes

My employer is very understanding but it is a university. We will have some staff in and others WFH. Priority to WFH will be given to those with children, vulnerable and those who have to use public transport.

it'll all work itself out when they start to find no work means no pay

I think that they also have to find out that no allowances will be made (including targets, objectives, general performance, not just availability to work) for those who choose to combine work and childcare. Many employers, mine included, have a strict policy of not permitting WFH while in care of a minor. That obviously had to be relaxed when the schools closed, but I feel it should be reintroduced for working hours which coincide with available childcare.

simply "not feeling comfortable" is not a luxury most of us have

Agree with this. My employer has been fantastic about being flexible and understanding that my capacity to work from home is reduced with having a 3 and 1 year old at home. My colleagues without kids have also been amazing at picking up the slack, and I feel guilty they’re having to, and very grateful. There’s just no way, once childcare is open, I could justify continuing to impact on my colleagues like that and basically doing the bare minimum, I don’t see why my employer should have to put up with that. Obviously if any of us were shielding it would be different.

How will their colleagues take it though Sandra? Mine have been very understanding until now but we are starting to see rumblings about certain people doing all the work etc and whilst I completely agree it's important to take care of the staff, I do need the ones who are actually working to be happy too (most?)

@sandragreen so what you are saying is that you will make allowances for staff who choose not to use childcare? Is that really being a good manager when your other employees are being held to stricter standards?

I think if specific schools don't open against government advice, if that is even possible, it could put excessive pressure on certain parents working for companies who expect their employees in if their children are supposed to be at school. I understand the concerns of schools and teachers but there will only be so much acceptance from employers before they take action.