Babies stranded in Ukraine

[Scissor]

Just watched the footage on C4. Really not comfortable with any of this. Staff, hospital etc all looking very gowned up, lots of cots in a big space all very clean and hygienic looking but newborn babies with no , and I mean zero, opportunities for attachment ??
This is looking very strange to me.

In the USA, and my memory may need shaky, a single man got a baby via surrogacy which was later removed by their version of social services.

Can't find it on Google.

The search returns lots of stories about how single men can have babies via surrogacy now :/

Not sure which countries.

@ILikeSardines

There's a terrible case cited in this article. There's no safeguarding or oversight of these poor babies at all.

mercatornet.com/use-and-abuse-the-exploitative-reality-of-surrogacy-and-egg-donation/24920/

"The intended father, Shannon Moore, a deaf single man living in his parents’ basement, urged Melissa to abort one of the triplets since he couldn’t pay the extra cost of another baby. Melissa refused and did not charge Shannon any money after the births of the children. She only wanted these babies to have a good, loving home.
Months after the triplets’ placement with Shannon, Melissa was horrified to learn that the intended father had a history of killing pets, lives with unstable family members, left the infants alone for hours, forced them to eat off the dirty floor of the basement, and changed their diapers so infrequently that the baby boys suffered severe rashes and had to be taken to the hospital."

Yes that was the case I was thinking of.

On blimey, a couple of weeks ago we were told my cousin and his wife were adopting twins from Ukraine, apparently a surrogate, but now I am not so sure. That's horrible.

That's really sad Ruby, it sounds like the pregnancy has been confirmed and more than one embryo has been implanted in order to get twins? I hope your cousin and his wife have seen this news and have lots of money ready to pay for the care of the twins. The travel bans might be extended and the Ukraine government will likely be looking to review the current situation and laws.

I hope the surrogate mother concerned is safe and not being exploited, I imagine that's quite likely.

Is your cousin the father?

It's disgraceful. Reminds me of a puppy farm. Those poor babies. I bet the birth mums feel awful too if they see this....I can't imagine how hard it must be to give up your newborn and on top of that, knowing that baby is starting their life in these awful circumstances. It's time that this whole 'rent a womb'/ 'buy a baby' awful business comes to an end.

I read this, this morning, I think the writer who is a surrogacy 'agent' is obviously bitter about his own experience because a judge in Spain was 'punishing' him. For me, he appears to be trying to come to terms with his complicity in this exploitation of women, he recognises how he makes money from it. He speaks of how he met the surrogate mother for the first time when they signed the documents but says he wants SMs to be 'ad hoc extended family'? IDK, he sounds like he's trying to take a moral position but doesn't see himself as the perpetrator.

mercatornet.com/a-view-from-the-inside-about-commercial-surrogacy/63012/

A colleague who is on maternity leave sent a short clip of her baby having a bath. The baby was born end of January so about 14 weeks now. It was such a sweet little clip, lots of gurgling and laughter, kicking and splashing and interacting with the parents.

Those babies born in early March are only six weeks behind this milestone. Who knows when they will be collected? They are missing out on so much crucial early development. It's a massive, international humanitarian scandal.

It’s a massive, international humanitarian scandal.

Yes. Governments in the countries where this is happening have to take urgent responsibility for sorting this out.

Good point as always Fanny and an article here talks about surrogacy and breastfeeding.

fullcreamweb.blog/2020/05/22/we-need-to-talk-about-surrogacy-and-breastfeeding/

I didn't realise but it's possible that donor milk is used so that would be another woman's body being used to feed the baby, in a bottle, as the child is away from the obvious source of milk, the mother.

What with Julie Bindel's research on the baby milk factories there really is no end of how useful our bodies are for making, growing, feeding and keeping babies alive. We just can't be allowed to bond with them for fear we will love them like mothers are supposed to.

This article from Australia says the agency released the Ukrainian babies’ pictures and the video to try to put pressure on other governments to let the babies be collected:
www.insider.com/couple-separated-from-child-born-via-surrogate-because-covid-19-2020-5

This BBC article talks about there being 100 babies waiting: www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-52706228

This Irish interview and article says that Ukraine is popular because it’s cheaper and that people are being asked to send basic supplies through to help care for them. www.newstalk.com/news/isnt-even-post-going-ukraine-challenges-surrogacy-covid-19-crisis-1017759

It is absolutely terrible to think about those poor babies and poor women too.

BBC article on babies stranded without intended parents after domestic commercial surrogacy in India. www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-52646024

I just got want to cry my eyes out and hug those babies.

And the birth mothers. Poor ladies, being pregnant is no joke and most of them end up with lifelong heath and mental issues.

From Deutsche Welle:

"In response to a query from DW, the Ukrainian Justice Ministry said almost 1,500 babies commissioned by couples from abroad were born to surrogate mothers in Ukraine in 2019. Around 140 of these children had at least one parent with German citizenship. According to the ministry, fewer such births were registered in 2018: about 1,100. But there have been no reliable statistics for years.
Many Ukrainian women are apparently ready to bear babies to earn money, driven by financial necessity. They are paid more than €15,000 ($16,350) per child. The average wage in the former Soviet republic is currently about €350 ($382) per month, and many people are being made unemployed by the coronavirus crisis.
"I definitely took this step for my own children," one surrogate mother told DW, adding that she wanted to finance "a good life" for them in this way."

www.dw.com/en/coronavirus-babies-born-to-surrogates-stranded-in-ukraine-clinic/a-53547276

Next we'll be hearing that to regulate the trade will cut off poor Ukrainian women from a good source of income.

I can't find the programme now and can't remember the title to search, but there was a radio 4 program with two men, one a lawyer and one a BBC producer chatting about their babies they had acquired through surrogacy. The lawyer had gone to India for the first, then, because India was making it more difficult he went to Nepal for the second. They actually joked that Indian women had been demonstrating in the streets (anyone have any evidence of this) because a good income stream had been removed from them.

I really should have written to the BBC and complained. Their total lack of self awareness or reflection of as shocking.

The media has covered this story quite widely now but I haven't seen many actually cover the surrogate mothers. I think two have mentioned them and one actually bothered to interview a SM in Ukraine who is still pregnant.

The lack of critical, investigative journalism is shocking, particularly when it comes to something that is a human rights scandal relating to a topical theme of a global pandemic.

I don't suppose I should have hoped for better. The media is not what it used to be.

I've found the program I referred to above. These two men appear to have absolutely no care, consideration or understanding of the consequences of surrogacy for the women providing them with babies. They are shockingly unaware and uninformed about the exploitation of poor women in poor countries. They just want the babies they feel entitled to. At about six minutes in they cheerfully discuss how India clamping down on international surrogacy meant a loss of a good income source for women and that apparently women in New Delhi were demonstrating in the streets about it. Really? Has anyone ever seen or heard any evidence of this? Isn't the point that the Indian government had ample evidence of abuse and exploitation that led them to ban international surrogacy. Did these men not even think about that?
What a sickening pair. I really must write and complain to the BBC about this tone deaf program which is all about male entitlement without a thought about the issues and problems their demands create for the women who are expected to serve and provide

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0006zt8

@OhHolyJesus
Honestly, the amounts quoted in this article are a bit on the fictional side. The parents may pay tens of thousands for the service - the surrogate will see maybe 5K max. The recruitment of women into the service is done by previous surrogates in a MLM fashion, and not only the agency takes the cut, but the whole "chain" too.
Also, yes, the mean wage looks ridiculous by British standards - but remember that it is a country with a massive black economy. Even big financial institutions (subject to transparency rules and signatories to international anti-money laundering procedures) will often declare only min wage on the payroll and top up the rest in an envelope.
5K is what an able bodied young woman would earn in two months picking berries in Germany or Finland (and Ukraine is visa-free with Schengen). It is a nice sum, but even in Ukraine it is far from life-changing.
I believe the majority of commercial surrogates in Ukraine are women with very complicated issues, ranging from addiction to mild learning disabilities. There might be some VIP arrangements where the surrogate is healthy, well-educated and paid tens of thousands, but I seriously doubt it is the "typical" case.
The above is based on my own experience of living in the country, but on a very limited personal experience, just "common knowledge".

Know 3 kids (twins, and separate child) who were born through surrogates.

The twins in Ukraine from a German couple, and one in the US for an American couple.

For me, regardless of one's own opinion about surrogacy (including my own) in the case of the twins born in Ukraine, I don't think the family trafficked a baby. They made one. The twins are genetically theirs, they ARE the parents, they just rented a Uterus (to a consenting) woman to make them happen. Whether one should be allowed to rent a uterus, (or a woman's body) is up to opinions BUT saying the twins suffered from being separated from their mom etc...is completely wrong. They are doing very well indeed and never were, in fact separated from their parents so no ''bonding'' was altered.

Now the family from the US is different because they used both sperm and egg donations and also used a surrogate they met through a friend. So technically from a biological point of view none of them is actually the parent of the baby though obviously a contract was sign and the two people who made the decision to have said baby are legally the parents.

The surrogate was a friend of a friend who didn't want kids but wanted to experience pregnancy, she wasn't paid (which seem to be what most people have a grief with but personally I find women not being rightly compensated much more bothersome) and for having met her and been there the two times she's met the kid she gave birth to, she very very obviously (and vocally) doesn't feel any motherly instinct for him (or in general) and have absolutely zero interest in this kid nor feel the need to bond or interact with him in any shape or form, the kid also surprisingly had absolutely no interest in her whatsoever, in fact knowing the kid very well and how sociable he is, it's actually quite impressive how disinterested he was by her. I thought maybe something would wake in him but she was just another stranger for him and I think he could sense she had zero interest in him and therefore didn't care much for her either.

If you had granted this (lovely may I say) lady the custody of this baby she would have absolutely freaked out and would have just given it up for adoption. She doesn't want to be a mom, in fact, she never wanted to and forcing her to be a mom to a baby that isn't biologically hers and she didn't want would be as wrong as forcing someone to go through a pregnancy she doesn't want (which isn't really the case of surrogacy).

From a more ethical POV do I agree with genetically creating children and asking other women to carry them etc...? Not necessarily no, but I also talk from a privileged place of understanding that for some people, surrogacy is getting access to a life changing amount for kids those women do have and are trying to raise and get out of poverty. Me controlling their body and what they do with it, wouldn't help anyone. I also have more grip with parents who naturally conceive and are shit parents than people who work together to bring a baby to life who will be loved and well-cared for.

Also, I very much love the 3 kids I know from surrogacy, there is no way to wish for the end of surrogacy without wishing kids like them weren't born and I couldn't potentially wish that. Should women who want to help, be able to help? I think so, it's their body their choice. Should those programs be extremely regulated and checked? YES. Should women be paid for this? Yes, for me yes, I know that by adding monetary value you are opening the door to more people wanting to volunteer for money purposes but I would rather women who consider prostituting themselves for pennies to make a living, end up doing a round of surrogacy (if they feel it would work for them both physically and emotionally/mentally) and make a hefty living that would leave them and their kids set up for quite a while financially than them put their body and mind through gruesome things just to make ends meet.

I am from a country where surrogacy is illegal, yet people still do it, by going to to other countries etc... it would be much better to legalize and regulate it, than have situations like this were people have created a baby who is now apatride and blocked in Ukraine unable to come ''home'' and have a family and will likely end up in an orphanage for years.

It's not for me to decide whether or not kids should have been born or not and wish they didn't exist, there will always be surrogacy like there will always be prostitution/abortions etc... whether it's legal or illegal and in plain sight or underground so I would rather it's done legally and regulated than not. For the sake of everyone involved.

This is from Georgia where more babies are born from surrogacy and at least 40 babies are stranded, the article claims. At least this one has a quote from a surrogate mother:

"The surrogate mother of their child, who wished to be identified only as Ana, said she was worried and emotional about giving birth during the global coronavirus lockdown. “I was ready to do everything for the baby, though our contract says I should not have any contact with the baby after birth,” Ana told Eurasianet. “This time I was thinking a lot about the baby in the hospital without his parents.”
It was Ana’s second delivery as a surrogate mother, for which she received $15,600, almost three times Georgia’s average annual salary. A single mother of two teenagers, Ana said the financial benefit as well as the personal satisfaction she gets from helping childless couples made her sign up to be a surrogate, something she would consider doing again."

eurasianet.org/parents-struggle-to-reach-newborn-surrogates-in-georgia

Ukrainian Commissioner for Children's Rights says surrogacy for foreigners should be banned.

112.international/society/ukraine-should-ban-surrogacy-for-foreigners-official-51826.html

Forgetmeyes is a MC woman who gave a baby up for adoption, loves babies, pregnancy is not a bother to her, also knows prostitutes and escorts.

This isn't a great article, it makes a brief comparison between US and Ukraine commercial surrogacy and fails to get into the detail of the money or the exploitation, but it mentions a podcast (which has a vile name I think) and a book being written by Jay Nault about how he bought twins from Ukraine.

abovethelaw.com/2020/07/is-ukraine-as-scary-for-surrogacy-as-it-looks/

I noted the email address for the lawyer and writer of the piece was babies@abovethaw and I thought that was appropriate!

Reviving this thread as relevant news article here.

Poor legal regulation threatens health of Ukraine’s egg donors
Paid surrogacy and the practice of egg donation remain unresolved regulatory issues in both Poland and Ukraine.

"While industry representatives do not side with human rights activists who have called the industry dangerously unregulated, both agree that for many years the state’s involvement has been minimal. This has created risks for the physical and mental health of Ukraine’s egg donors and opportunities for human rights violations.

This topic has not been discussed publicly until last year, when it became evident that Ukraine desperately needs regulation in this sphere. The closed borders and restrictions on movement introduced last year due to the COVID-19 pandemic left many surrogate mothers in limbo and biological parents unable to meet with their newborns. The economic decline pushed more vulnerable women searching for extra income using surrogacy or egg donation as a way to make ends meet."

neweasterneurope.eu/2021/03/15/poor-legal-regulation-threatens-health-of-ukraines-egg-donors/