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Original poster

Babies stranded in Ukraine

202 replies

Scissor · 15/05/2020 19:05

Just watched the footage on C4. Really not comfortable with any of this. Staff, hospital etc all looking very gowned up, lots of cots in a big space all very clean and hygienic looking but newborn babies with no , and I mean zero, opportunities for attachment ??
This is looking very strange to me.

OP posts:
HavelockVetinari · 15/05/2020 21:33

Anyone who pays another (poor) woman to carry and give up a baby is a disgraceful excuse for a person and ought to be ashamed to their very core. How dare they. Those poor women, and poor babies who learned their biological mother's scent and sound only to be taken away.

And no, adoption isn't at all the same, since adoption is a least-worst scenario. Setting out to take a baby away from its mother is despicable and exploitative. Sad

Ylvamoon · 15/05/2020 21:46

... it's just incredibly sad.
(I also thinking of the parents who ordered them, will they reject a 2, 3, 4, or even 5 months old baby with possible issues for a "fresh" one? Disturbing thought.)

BentBastard · 15/05/2020 21:47

That ITV link is depressing because all the focus appears to be on how awful it is for the parents waiting for there babies rather than any concern about the actual babies.

Thescrewinthetuna · 15/05/2020 21:49

Surrogacy is so wrong

missyB1 · 15/05/2020 21:54

I’m not denying it’s a bad start for those poor babies and I don’t approve of the circumstances. However it doesn’t necessarily mean long term damage at all. My ds was 10 weeks prem. He spent 4 months in SCBU, the first 4 weeks of that I was very ill and barely saw him, he also had major surgery during that time. Even after coming home he had repeated hospital admissions for the first year, I didn’t always stay with him. I definitely had bonding issues. However my lovely HV got us back on track and he suffered no long term effects, and neither did our relationship. He was a happy laid back child, and we are still very close - he’s 30 now.

anascrecca · 15/05/2020 21:55

Fourth trimester anyone? We are taught a baby recognises it's mum's voice, smell etc in the womb, so staying close to Mum after birth feels familiar and comforting 😕

ohidontgetit · 15/05/2020 22:05

I hope laws are set out to get these babies safely home ASAP. Obviously the parents are wrong to have taken this route but the babies have already been ripped away from the mother who carried them, it’s essential they are able to bond with those who are going to be raising them as soon as possible. I can’t imagine the trauma these babies are experiencing.

This is a really sobering documentary on surrogacy in Ukraine produced by an Australian TV company, for anybody with a spare half hour:

LizzieMacQueen · 15/05/2020 22:06

These babies are genetically their parents (I think I heard), so egg and sperm donation. It looked like there was a large tv screen presumably so the 'parents' could skype the room.

Sad on all levels and so soon after the news of the Afghanistan shootings of newborns and their mothers.

ohidontgetit · 15/05/2020 22:10

I also second the poster concerned that the parents may not want the baby a couple of months down the line. Therefore condemning the child they artificially created to a life of misery in an impoverished orphanage.

Look up Bridget, a child of American parents born to a Ukrainian surrogate who was left brain damaged from a premature birth. The parents wanted nothing to do with her and she is now about 4, in an orphanage. She has only recently got Ukrainian citizenship as it took so long for the American parents to be legally able to wash their hands of her.

Disgusting.

ohidontgetit · 15/05/2020 22:12

Also, Bridget’s mother was a refugee from war torn Donetsk. The company very much washed their hands of her post birth (post transaction) as well.

Gettingo · 15/05/2020 22:17

Buying and selling hilumans should be illegal Angry

Mummyshark2019 · 15/05/2020 22:19

It is disgusting and shocking. Shame on Ukraine and to all those who purchase these babies creating the demand for this. There are so many children in orphanages who need a home. This makes me sick.

Dyrne · 15/05/2020 22:23

@BubblyBarbara the mothers won’t be seeing anything close to half of that money. The clinic will keep the vast majority of it and pay the mother a pittance.

grey12 · 15/05/2020 22:24

@CatsMother66 I remember reading about it journalist visiting an orphanage in a very poor country and he said exactly the same. The babies didn't cry! They know no one is coming to comfort them Sad

Theukisgreatt · 15/05/2020 22:24

I think it's really sad for the babies and also the parents. I can't imagine how heartbreaking it must be to not be able to see your child.

Mushypeasandchipstogo · 15/05/2020 22:29

I too was hugely disturbed and disgusted when I saw this on the news last night. I would like to see a worldwide ban on surrogacy. Shame on the Ukraine for allowing this and I realise that they are not the only country who allow these baby farms.

Coffeeandbeans · 15/05/2020 22:31

It should be banned. My 15 year old son saw the clip on BBC news last night and asked about it. It was so sad seeing those babies and knowing they had been taken from their mothers. As another poster said we don’t take puppies or calf’s from their mothers immediately. But we have known that Hs goes on for example Elton John and isn’t there a gay singer who recently announced they were expecting a baby.

littlbrowndog · 15/05/2020 22:37

Baby farming. No less no more.

We should not be selling babies.

They are human babies. Don’t sell them

BeatrixPottersAlterEgo · 15/05/2020 22:37

I would have always said I was a supporter of surrogacy, largely thinking of all those stories where a woman carries her sister's child. But this makes me feel really, really uncomfortable.

Mumoftwoyoungkids · 15/05/2020 22:40

I have said this many times.

I used to think that surrogacy was a lovely idea. The gift of life! What could be more beautiful. And then I gave birth to dd.

The birth was very traumatic and I was quite ill afterwards. Spent the first few hours of dd’s life drifting in and out of consciousness. At one point dd started looking a bit poorly too and was apparently making a horrible moaning noise. (It said on the medical notes “moaning a lot” which I was rather offended by until I realised they meant dd not me!) The midwife got dh (who by this point was getting frantic) to lie dd on my chest so she could hear my heartbeat. He did and she immediately relaxed and looked a lot better.

I was unconscious at the time but dd still recognised my heartbeat. She knew me and she needed me. Because I was her mum.

Ylvamoon · 15/05/2020 23:20

@ohidontgetit - thank you for the video link which also covers Bridget's story. It's so sad! But her story needs to be told to everyone who is considering Surrogacy needs to see it. Abandoning a child into an already broken system leves me speechless.... Sad

forgetmeyes · 16/05/2020 00:28

Everyone who assumes that adoption is always the least worst option only ever seems to be referring to when the birth mum is completely incapable of looking after, and would completely neglect the baby.

What about all the people who give up babies because they don't want them.

I've NC for this because I'm ready for a flaming but I have up a baby for adoption just because I wanted to. I was perfectly capable of looking after it, caring for it, giving it a stable, loving home with great care and good prospects (I'm educated from an MC background and love babies). You know why I gave it up? I didn't want it, I wanted my life.

The best option for that baby would've been to stay with me but I didn't want it to. I have no contact with the child but get bi-yearly updates and photos. The child is doing well and happy. It didn't need me post-birth and I didnt need it. I felt no emotional wrenching giving it up and would happily be a surrogate for someone else who did want a child. No bother to me and the child would (yet again) go to parents who love and want it.

In every debate about surrogacy there is so much emotionally loaded language used. Not every surrogate (and I use surrogate, not surrogate mother, because from speaking to surrogates and considering doing it myself no surrogate wants to be labelled the mother) is heartbroken to give up the baby. Many can't wait for the 'job' to be done and get their life back. And not because it's emotional and exploitative, in the same way everyone enjoys going home from work at the end of the day no matter how much they love their job.

So many women who call themselves 'feminists' can't wait to take the right for a woman to do what they want with their own bodies (in this case uterus, in other cases prostitution). Yes I acknowledge there needs to be legislation in place to stop vulnerable people being exploited but this outcry that it taking advantage of every woman who is part of it is pearl clutching ridiculousness from people whom it goes against their personal conservative values and therefore think everyone should be banned from doing it.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 16/05/2020 08:19

I'm very much against the exploitation of vulnerable women here, but I can't see how anybody can argue that it's in the interests of the baby either. The best solution is for every woman to have access to reliable contraception and to termination of pregnancy when accidents happen. Every child should be a wanted child and wherever possible should grow up with her/his birth parents. We ignore the strength of that biological link with the woman who gave birth at our peril.

Clymene · 16/05/2020 08:33

It is one thing to give a baby up for adoption, it is quite another to deliberately have a baby to sell to someone else.

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