Babies stranded in Ukraine

[Scissor]

Just watched the footage on C4. Really not comfortable with any of this. Staff, hospital etc all looking very gowned up, lots of cots in a big space all very clean and hygienic looking but newborn babies with no , and I mean zero, opportunities for attachment ??
This is looking very strange to me.

I don't understand your point. Would you have had a problem with the mum collecting and the dad working? Or is it only mothers you have an issue with going to work?

You don’t understand the absolute horror that is a couple commissioning a baby and the “mother” being too busy to come to the hospital to meet it for the first time and bring it home? If not, then I don’t think anyone can make you understand.

There’s no need to make jibes about sexism and working mothers here.

@RoseGoldEagle @Ylvamoon

Altruistic surrogacy can still go horribly wrong and I would strongly advise anyone against it.
When the family member of best friend for whom you have offered to do this massive favour treat you badly it is even more hurtful than when a stranger does it.
Don't think there is no coercion either.

nordicmodelnow.org/2020/01/29/i-was-an-altruistic-surrogate-and-am-now-against-all-surrogacy/

I have met this woman. She was extremely traumatised both physically and mentally by the experience and suffers from PTSD as well as incontinence.
The best friends she did this for wanted nothing more to do with her after she had handed over the twins.

She started getting red flags and thinking about backing out before she became pregnant but by then she felt her friends were so emotionally and financially invested she didn't think she could disappoint them that way. She was persuaded to allow two embryos to be implanted, not realising how much harder a twin pregnancy would be. The commissioning father said twins would be "the icing on the cake" without a thought about how it might impact her health.

I have been posting on the other threads but wanted to jump on and share this.

Nordic Model Now have done a letter template to send to MPs re the Law Commission proposals.

Following the news from Kiev I thought I'd share.

nordicmodelnow.org/2020/05/15/ask-your-mp-to-take-action-on-the-law-commissions-surrogacy-proposals/

If you don't want to see commercial surrogacy come to the UK please download this letter and send it to your MP. Copy in Mat Hancock if you can. It takes hardly any time at all.

Make no mistake, a LOT of behind the scenes lobbying has been going on to bring California style surrogacy law to the UK and the Law Commission are currently working on their proposals.

If these proposals go ahead the UK will become an international surrogacy destination. And the NHS and UK taxpayer will be funding it. Even if you are not sure about surrogacy I think you can be sure that the NHS shouldn't be funding an international baby trade.

nordicmodelnow.org/2020/05/15/ask-your-mp-to-take-action-on-the-law-commissions-surrogacy-proposals/

Ha. Cross post @OhHolyJesus

'I'm not a fan of surrogacy at all, but most of the babies are the biological child of a couple who can't have their own, and who've simply rented a womb.'

The language/imagery that detaches, as it were, the womb from the woman it is in, is popular with both the anti abortion and pro surrogacy types.

Both see the mother as a vessel and both invisibilise the risks involved in pregnancy and childbirth.

I'm not a fan of surrogacy at all, but most of the babies are the biological child of a couple who can't have their own, and who've simply rented a womb.

The baby may be genetically that of the commissioning couple, but every cell is built, nourished and grown entirely from the body of the surrogate.

The baby recognisesvthe surrogate's smell, voice and heartbeat from its time in the womb. The surrogate is the mother.

Ah Fanny you beat me too it.

A really great letter, I don't think I'll even change it when I send it.

It's the punching the air that really gets me.

Me too, I mean what have they actually achieved? They've bought a baby, that's not something to be proud of.

That's a great letter, I've just sent it off to my MP.

Yup. As far as baby is concerned, surrogate is mum. Baby will want and look around for mum immediately after birth. Baby doesn’t give a flying fuck about genetics. In fact, it has been proven that the baby inherits genetic material from the surrogate anyway. The mother’s body adapts to that specific baby and their needs.

Also, just because there is a lack of anecdotes about trauma experienced by the biological mother, it doesn’t mean it hasn’t happened. I doubt a rich American couple bringing their beautiful newborn home and showing them off to their family and friends would be keen to discuss how the surrogate had a breakdown after the birth. That’s if they were even told about the mother’s condition after baby is handed over.

*trauma experienced by the surrogate mother, not bio.

A quick google brings up interviews from surrogate mothers in Ukraine detailing the appalling treatment they received. Many forced to move into an apartment with numerous other women at 32 weeks, having to share beds, lack of own toilet facilities, put under curfew and fined if they break it.
Stories of women who had still births or miscarriages not being paid, no after care for the damage pregnancy and birth caused, put up in crap hospitals etc. Women suffering PTSD from the process.

It's terrible, I don't know how anyone can even begin to defend it.

I'm not sure that most of the babies are not biologically the babies of both 'intended' parents unless they're very wealthy women who don't want to be pregnant because it's inconvenient/takes a toll on their bodies/is too risky.

Many use another woman to provide the eggs for the surrogate. So there are two women whose fertility and health is compromised.

I read this article yesterday

https://heyreprotech.substack.com/p/on-becoming-a-mother-in-your-late?utmcampaign=post&utmmmedium=web&utmsource=copy

The couple in the article decided to become parents in their late 50s. They used two egg donors to create 5 embryos and 2 surrogates. There is a deeply disturbing disregard for all 4 of the women involved in creating a child who will have parents who are at retirement age before they are adults.

This is not in anyone's best interests.

Fanny that's a heart-breaking read

I'll be sending that to my MP. Thank you for sharing

[I] would happily be a surrogate for someone else who did want a child. No bother to me...

That"s laughable. There's no way a pregnancy and birth is "no bother".

It’s interesting that Ukraine seems to be the new global centre of the baby farming trade, since India tightened up its laws (at least, I believe that’s what India did - someone my MIL knows paid a surrogate to birth her first child in India, plus another to birth her second in Ukraine. I’m sure they would have gone back to India the second time if they could have).

For Australians Haworthia after Thailand tightened up after Baby Gammy/David Farnell they headed to Cambodia.

A man who ran what was a smaller version for BioTexCom said he was under threat of being charged with human trafficking and his response was "it's not worth it" so he closed the 'agency'.

It has increased massively in frequency recently which is shocking, and for reasons which are unethical. Kim K using surrogacy she doesn't ruin her figure, reports of film stars in bollywood not wanting their careers affected, and wanting white surrogates so the babies have lighter skin, male gay couples like Elton buying babies from poor mums. No amount of money should buy you a baby. The reasons for purchase are becoming more and more gross. There is always Ann unfair power dynamic.

The language/imagery that detaches, as it were, the womb from the woman it is in, is popular with both the anti abortion and pro surrogacy types.

Both see the mother as a vessel and both invisibilise the risks involved in pregnancy and childbirth.

So true Beetroot

@Haworthia Ukraine is currently the centre, I assume they like the money it brings in. What seems to happen is one country has no laws so the clinics pop up, lots of surrogacy cases. Then something will go wrong - a surrogate mother will die, a wealthy commissioning parent will try to sue over something, a baby will be abandoned, and suddenly the government realise it's a nightmare for them. So they introduce strict laws (either banning it outright, banning commercial surrogacy or banning international visitors from commissioning babies) and suddenly the clinics close up shop (often leaving everyone involved in the chain in a nightmare scenario), and pop up in a new unregulated destination. Happened in Nepal a few years ago, Thailand cracked down after baby Gammy, I think Cambodia is the next in the chain.