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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask if you would judge someone for being single and pregnant

348 replies

Siablue · 15/05/2020 12:41

If you knew a single woman who was going to go have a baby would you judge her? Would you make any assumptions about her situation if she was happy to pregnant? Would you ask her who the father was (if this was someone you knew but were not close to)?

OP posts:
FirTree31 · 17/05/2020 18:47

Just had a moment... My children are at the Father's, I just did a Zoom yoga class with an instructor hadn't met before and we stayed and chatted a little at the end. Instructor asked if I lived alone, I said no, I have two children, and she said gosh they're very quiet, and I laughed and felt embarrassed and said yes. I didn't say, oh they're away, I judged myself and felt defensive against how I May have been judged by others. I'm actually quite sad now, because it's little moments like this when meeting new people I feel it the most.

FirTree31 · 17/05/2020 19:08

I hope for those passing round studies as telling us why our children may kill themselves, or end up In prison or as an alcoholic judge the true issue, the absent parent. This thread was never about that, it asked if you would judge a pregnant single parent. Thankfully most would not. Most single parents are very hard working, they love their children just as fiercely as mothers of nuclear families. You wouldn't judge someone of colour (I really hope not anyway) because statistically they are more likely to be imprisoned, I hope you are able to see the correlations here (assumptions made because of their colour by others, such as police officers). There was a big drive for poverty porn during the depths of austerity which shamed people in poverty including single parents which stigmatised them driven by tabloid newspapers and horrible TV shows. I do think people find comfort in othering, for example, a person found guilty of abuse, as though it makes them immune. Single parents stigmatised for doing their best despite the actions of others should be brought out of that stigma. As PP said, the concept of a nuclear family is a very new one. I'm certainly no expert on race or the experience of being marginalised because of it, but I'm using this an example of those stigmatised because of assumptions and statistics. No one should be vilified for doing the absolute best they can and right by their children.

TrainspottingWelsh · 17/05/2020 21:02

One thing that has been generally found to have the biggest influence on a child's outcome is the mother's level of education. If I was so ignorant I didn't even understand the concept of evidence, such as @NikeDeLaSwoosh, or I didn't understand the difference between outdated rubbish and my own anecdotal experience versus up to date research, such as hannayeah I personally wouldn't choose to have a child.

HannaYeah · 17/05/2020 21:11

@trainspottingwelsh

Ok

HannaYeah · 17/05/2020 21:17

@firtree31

Someone asked for studies with specific information in them. I just found and posted a few in response to that request. It’s not even about the original, very unspecific question in the first post at this point.

I don’t think anyone with any real sense believes a study about children and families could apply to every family situation.

I’m sorry people have judged your particular situation. That’s not helpful, useful or reasonable. Hope those ignorant people you encounter in real life are few and far between.

I’m also not taking personally the posters attacks on my own decision making about motherhood as a woman, my mental health or my intelligence. They aren’t any more useful or informed than the people making you feel judged in real life.

MarieQueenofScots · 17/05/2020 21:24

This thread was never about that

The thing is, they know it wasn’t about that. It’s just an excuse to pat themselves on the back because they’re doing it right.

I do think it shows a lack of ability to consider nuance to think like that, but in my experience the people who judge single parents are projecting their own unhappiness at their life onto a target society has deemed permissible.

Families come in all shapes and sizes. Poor parents come in all shapes and sizes. If you judge on a wedding ring or lack thereof it isn’t very bright.

P999 · 17/05/2020 21:48

Thanks for posting those studies. I will take a look. I think the important thing is to properly isolate what the relevant risk factors are. And being a lone parent in and of itself is too simplistic. It might be that from the cohort those studies looked at (And i realise am making an assumption here) there may be correlates that ate not the key risk factor. This whole question was debated at length when the human fertilisation and embryology act was being updated back in 2008. Apart from the die hard social conservatives, parliament recognised that the mother/ father model is not a pre requisite for good parenting. We are seen as v enlightened in this country for our IVF laws. Single women and same sex couples can have assisted repro treatment. That's not the case in other countries, including other European countries

HannaYeah · 17/05/2020 21:51

Def agree with you @p999.

All kinds of factors going into the outcomes and so much ability to add positive things into the mix that counteract some of the factors at play.

Siablue · 17/05/2020 22:37

They question wasn’t about about what is the perfect optimal situation in which to have a baby. I think that few people can honestly say they have that.

It is was about how you would react to someone who was single announcing their pregnancy. I think it is obvious that a lot of people would judge.

How much of your situation do you need to share with other people who are not your family or friends.

OP posts:
stanley10 · 17/05/2020 22:41

@SnackSizeRaisin does that mean you would also disapprove of a single sex female couple having a baby with no man involved in bringing it up?

DuchessOfSofa · 17/05/2020 22:50

Wow, depressing articles linked, I just clicked on the psychology today one. It's in america though, stigma is worse there.

It was a depressing read but it doesn't change the fact that my kids are better off that we split up. My parents were married and I found myself unable to have a relationship basically (attachment disorder). My two parents did a worse job than I am doing.

The way I was fucked up, it's harder to measure. And so it isn't measured, or recorded in any statistics anywhere.

I didn't take drugs or commit crime. I just felt so inadequate for years. Unseen, unheard, told what I thought, told what I felt for decades. People pleaser extra-ordinaire. The only thing I excelled at.

My very respectable married mum did that to me. Luckily I had a good therapist after I split up from my xh.

HannaYeah · 17/05/2020 23:06

@Siablue

To answer you, whenever a friend of family member had told me they are having a baby I’ve reacted with genuine happiness and support. It’s a new little human, and it’s exciting and joyful. My reaction isn’t different for married vs. single parents.

I would judge people that judge pregnant women. It’s stupid - I think the people judging want to pretend like sex outside of marriage is a new invention.

I think my own family, particularly my parents would have been supportive of me if I’d been in that situation. I’ve never heard them express judgement about anyone having a child without being married.

By the way, I’m in the US if that matters.

HannaYeah · 17/05/2020 23:08

@DuchessOfSofa

They are depressing. Sorry!

I suspect it’s much worse here in America than in Europe. We don’t have the social support here that exists elsewhere and drugs are a huge problem everywhere.

DuchessOfSofa · 17/05/2020 23:28

It's ok, the articles may be depressing but they don't depress me personally as I don't see them as being about people like me, if you know what I mean. I read that and I know I'm doing a good job, my DC are happy, confident, doing ok at school, and we're not broke, our home is secure, no step dad, no boyfriends, support from my family over the years, so I know it's just statistics.

TrainspottingWelsh · 17/05/2020 23:34

@Siablue You only need to share whatever you genuinely want to share. You aren't obliged to share anything, and you certainly shouldn't feel you need to explain anything to justify yourself. Anyone that requests explanations already has preconceived ideas, and it's not up to you to prove your case so they can find you not guilty.

Tbh I never really had a problem making my opinion known about ill mannered and intrusive questions. But in a situation where it's necessary to be more restrained, or if you aren't as comfortable being assertive, repeating 'pardon' 'excuse me' 'sorry I don't understand' etc so they have to keep repeating and explaining their question generally got the point across. Alternatively you give an answer bluntly revealing only what you're comfortable with and ask them preferably the same, or something equally intrusive in return.
'So was it planned?'
'Yes. What about your dc?'

HannaYeah · 17/05/2020 23:53

If someone asked if “it was planned” I’d like to say funny things like “Oh no, I’d done it before you see and it’s really fairly simple and natural. I prefer to keep things spontaneous. Do you usually plan it out before you do it?”

AnnaNimmity · 18/05/2020 20:21

not generally. But I do know someone who deliberately got pregnant with a man who was sleeping around, and knocked her and other women around.

I do judge her - she chose to bring a child into that life and I think that's a pretty shit thing to do as a parent She's absolutely insane though, with massive problems. It's the child I feel most sorry for in that situation. She chose to bring a child into a massively fucked up, abusive relationship.

Lemonsherbets78 · 19/05/2020 14:22

There is a fantastic book called "the book you wish your parents had read (and your children will be glad that you did) by Philippa Perry. There is a section on your child's environment where she discussed the findings of a multitude of studies that reach the same conclusion: the structure of the family matters infinitely less than the people within it. Single parent children do no better nor worse than those from conventional families once factors such as financial situations and parental education are taken into consideration. That is to say, whilst single parents are more likely to be worse off financially, that isn't the case for everyone. Definitively stating that this child will be worse off for their mother's single status is disingenuous. Numerous studies also suggest that as long as a child has positive male role models, the absence of a father has little to no effect on the child. The language in which we discuss a father's (or mother's!) absence makes all the difference. For children who's families create an environment of security and nurturing, an absent parent can have no negative effect at all on a child. Of course I may get some replies with anecdotes and this won't be the case for everyone, but bear in mind there are numerous external factors that also contribute to a child's psyche.

I was recently re-watching Grange Hill, in one episode there is great scandal, and an almost-sackable offence, that a single and never married teacher has a child. It's still very much ingrained in us today that being a single parent is a negative thing, where it doesn't have to be any more, nor should it be.

We all impart some level of trauma (however minor it may be) onto our children, no matter how perfect and loving we may be. My parents are still married, they had 2 children including me, upper middle class, job security, grandparents are still married, I suffered no abuse. Absolutely textbook perfect family and perfect childhood. My father was military, and was away a lot though. This was made such a big deal of, the fact he was in danger was talked about so often I developed a lot of complex emotions as a child, that I never worked through until I was an adult. I worried my dad would forget who I was and I worried that he would die. The reassurance I needed wasn't met because the adults in my life were worriers who were also stressed that he would be flown home in a box. It's important to choose your language and tone around your child, being a single parent is only a negative if you allow it to be, as with everything else associated with families. I co-parent, and I reinforce how great DD's dad is to her and how much we love him and he loves her- even when he falls short of the mark at times. His failings are an adult thing to deal with and she isn't an adult, so it isn't discussed anywhere near her. Of course separated parents who constantly criticise and bitch about the other parent, absent or present, are going to raise children with issues around their parentage, and thus issues with who they are themselves.

Settle59 · 19/05/2020 15:46

My outlook on life is that something which may seem very wrong on the face of it may be ABSOLUTELY RIGHT in those particular circumstances. Circs can be complex

Siablue · 19/05/2020 20:45

Thank you for such thoughtful replies.

I have read the book you wis book your parents had read. I found it very reassuring.

For my first baby it looked to everyone on the outside that I was in the perfect situation married, nice home but I really wasn’t. My husband was abusive and I left.

Now it looks to people from the outside that I am in a bad situation but I am happy.

OP posts:
AnnaNimmity · 19/05/2020 20:57

Someone upthread says that the child of single parent has worse outcomes - that's not right. In fact, it's not being the child of a single parent that affects the outcomes of the child, it's poverty. So no, I don't judge single parents.

And yes, it's much much worse and far more damaging for a child to be with 2 parents who are in an abusive relationship than to be with one single parent. And I judge people who subject their children to that, much more.

Sadly stigma against single parents still exists. But it shouldn't.

hfrdgftcsdg · 19/05/2020 21:09

I’m a single Mum (but Dad is heavily involved). I truly don’t think we could have done a better job. He’s a really well rounded kid. I think if I’d of been the type to stay with him then my Sons life wouldn’t have been as nice.
I don’t buy into this that two parents living together trumps two parents living apart but happier.
They just want peace between everyone they love and happiness.
Houses that are constantly arguing are terrible for children.

longtimecomin · 19/05/2020 21:14

I wouldn't but when I was pregnant I got massively judged by a polish girl for not being married to my partner. She kept saying 'does everyone keep asking you who the father is?'
Bitch!

Don't worry about everyone else, enjoy your pregnancy and your baby and fuck everyone else!!

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