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To feel sorry for these babies

262 replies

Hottoddy1 · 14/05/2020 14:36

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2020/may/14/surrogates-baby-coronavirus-lockdown-parents-surrogacy?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

The tone of the article seems to just be - oh what a shame that covid happened and this has meant surrogate babies can’t get to their intended parents. Absolutely no concern for firstly the trauma to the babies leaving the caregiver they are bonded with after who knows how long and secondly no acknowledgement that perhaps allowing people to go to other countries and essentially hire women’s bodies and buy babies might have some downsides for both the women and the babies involved.

OP posts:
opticaldelusion · 14/05/2020 14:45

So you're against surrogacy then?

Soubriquet · 14/05/2020 14:50

I’m not against surrogacy but I do feel sorry for the babies

They would have bonded with who ever was looking after them. To suddenly then have to go with strangers (even if that stranger is biologically related) will be traumatising.

Small children in adoption have a transition period. I bet this won’t happen for surrogate babies

TheClitterati · 14/05/2020 14:52

It shines a light and shows surrogacy as the human farming industry it is.

ChandlerIsTheBestFriend · 14/05/2020 14:56

YANBU op

Gingerkittykat · 14/05/2020 14:56

Men buy the use of a woman's body, demand that lockdown restrictions are lifted for them and then talk about their feelings and not the welfare of a child.

Not really surprising, commercial surrogacy should be banned worldwide.

SerenDippitty · 14/05/2020 15:01

Men buy the use of a woman's body, demand that lockdown restrictions are lifted for them and then talk about their feelings and not the welfare of a child.

It's not just gay men who use surrogates.

Soubriquet · 14/05/2020 15:04

Exactly^

There are plenty of women who use surrogates too

Mucklowe · 14/05/2020 15:23

Surrogacy should be banned outright.

Bluebird3456 · 14/05/2020 15:24

There will be people on MN who have bee or used a surrogate. This isn't a nice thread.

ChandlerIsTheBestFriend · 14/05/2020 15:29

There will be people on MN who have bee or used a surrogate. This isn't a nice thread.

Don’t be ridiculous! Sensitive topics are still allowed to be discussed you know!

Waveysnail · 14/05/2020 15:30

International surrogacy is wrong. Surrogacy in itself isn't wrong. To me the surrogate should live nearish the adoptive parent(s) and they should be involved during pregnancy to some degree. It shouldnt be a business transaction

VeniceQueen2004 · 14/05/2020 15:33

I feel for the surrogates and the babies. And even the parents.

A surrogate does not expect to be left 'holding the baby', and the emotional pain they may feel having to care for the baby they birthed and then feel obligated to give up, or be ultimately emotionally unable to do so and end up with a child they did not plan for, could be catastrophic for their lives.

The babies will bond with their caregivers in the coming weeks and months and then lose them forever - this is a trauma, and while it may be one they can recover from it can't be underestimated. Their 'real' parents may struggle to bond with them when presented with a three month old child raised through infancy by someone else, instead of the newborn baby they envisaged caring for. It's a terrible start in life.

And the parents - I know people who have their babies immediately whisked into special care, or who are themselves very ill after childbirth and can't be with their new babies, suffer enormous pain and guilt and worry. I can only imagine it must be similar for parents by surrogacy, wanting nothing so much but to be with their child and not being able to be.

Horribly horribly sad.

AllIMissNowIsTheSea · 14/05/2020 15:36

Being against surrogacy isn't being against any group of people becoming parents.

It's about being against hiring wombs, it's about the fact there is usually a massive power imbalance and so much room for financial abuse and exploitation of the surrogate.

It's about deliberately creating babies for the specific purpose of removing them from their birth mother as newborns (which is an absolute last resort option in child protection, but apparently fine if well off people want to buy a baby).

It's also in many cases against the sale of donor eggs - this is slightly less of an issue in Europe but in countries which allow payment for donnor eggs there are shady practices which leave the donor women with massive health problems. Even in the UK and Europe there are problems where naive young volunteer donors are emotionally blackmailed into donating because it's nice and kind without being properly educated about the long term health risk.

Surrogacy is an industry which exploits women and newborns in many parts of the world.

It's also creating children who are likely to have massive identity conflict issues in the future.

It's an industry which puts fairly affluent adult's wants above poorer women and children. A lot of the reasons why surrogacy is rarely a genuinely free choice are the same as the reasons prostitution isn't either. With surrogacy there's a newborn in the mix too.

PlanDeRaccordement · 14/05/2020 15:40

Many female celebrities/actresses use surrogates. Usually due to infertility:
Kim Kardashian
Katy Sagal
Amy Smart
GloZell Green
Tyra Banks
Elizabeth Banks
Guiliana Rancic
Nancy Juvoven & Jimmy Fallon
Lucy Liu
Ellen Pompeo
Sarah Jessica Parker
Nicole Kidman
Dylan Lauren
Kara DioGaurdi
Jordana Brewster

AllIMissNowIsTheSea · 14/05/2020 15:45

PlanDeRaccordement does that make surrogacy perfectly fine? Actresses do it, it's fine! What's your point?

PlanDeRaccordement · 14/05/2020 15:45

Being against surrogacy isn't being against any group of people becoming parents.. Technically it is. It’s against infertile parents who have perfectly good embryos but no functioning womb.

It’s not that traumatic to the baby as evidenced by the experience of children adopted as babies.

PlanDeRaccordement · 14/05/2020 15:46

Yes, I think surrogacy is absolutely fine.

Bluebird3456 · 14/05/2020 15:47

Don’t be ridiculous! Sensitive topics are still allowed to be discussed you know

Of course they are but there's already been a couple of insensitive comments and I can anticipate the onslaught here.

AllIMissNowIsTheSea · 14/05/2020 15:48

PlanDeRaccordement if you were saying all those women have recently acted as surrogates for their less well off sisters, neighbors, friends, or altruistically for complete strangers it would be a far more interesting point...

Strangely there are startlingly few stories of celebs and actresses going through pregnancy and handing over their newborns to the not so rich and famous as acts of kindness... Can't imagine why it only goes one way...

Mylittlepony374 · 14/05/2020 15:50

Completely agree with @AllIMissNowIsTheSea

PlanDeRaccordement · 14/05/2020 15:57

The Atlantic did a good article on demographics of surrogates:
“The majority of intended parents are heterosexual couples. Some are infertile due to biological abnormalities. Others face fertility challenges wrought by hysterectomies, car accidents, paralysis, or other medical problems. More and more are gay male couples (lesbian couples rarely hire surrogates, given the inexpensive, thoroughly-screened sperm on the market and the statistical improbability of two female partners both being infertile). Increasingly, there are more single women and single men who are consciously and openly choosing to become solo parents. CSP originally worked only with couples, but in 2009 the company changed its guidelines to welcome single parents.”
“The surrogates are obviously all female, and they’re noticeably younger—the average age is about 28. The typical profile runs like this: married, Christian, middle class, with two to three biological children, working a part-time job, living in a small town or suburb rather than a big city, with a degree of college education but usually without a college degree...In the United States, statistics show that surrogates fall into the average household income category of under $60,000. About 15 to 20 percent are military wives. Some are single women. Those who are married have husbands who support paid surrogacy; surrogacy is obviously not something you can hide, or withstand with a spouse who is not on board emotionally. They have health insurance. They get paid well—the surrogacy fee paid directly to surrogate mothers who work for CSP runs from $20,000 to $30,000 per pregnancy, tax-free. Experienced surrogates often command higher fees; as in any position, experience counts. Of the women who serve as surrogates for CSP, roughly 35 percent repeat the experience; in the U.S. there is no limit to the number of times a surrogate can carry for-profit babies.”
“CSP is not alone in its strict criterion for surrogates. Ethical surrogacy agencies and lawyers don’t accept two specific categories of potential surrogates. First, they reject women below the poverty level who may be at greater risk for health concerns and coercion, and who probably do not have medical insurance. Second, they reject women who don’t have children. Women who are already mothers have proven they are fertile, and have a more comprehensive grasp of what it will mean to surrender a baby to its legal parents.”
www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/11/who-becomes-a-surrogate/281596/

ChandlerIsTheBestFriend · 14/05/2020 15:59

Of course they are but there's already been a couple of insensitive comments and I can anticipate the onslaught here.

Well if you don’t wish to read it, don’t. Other people are entitled to discuss it.

PlanDeRaccordement · 14/05/2020 15:59

Can't imagine why it only goes one way...

Because of the fees you pay a surrogate are steep. So yes, poorer women cannot hire a surrogate. Much the way a poorer woman cannot hire a full time nanny.

On the list I posted, only one woman was fertile- Kim Khardashian. All the other celebrities were infertile.

AllIMissNowIsTheSea · 14/05/2020 16:00

"It’s not that traumatic to the baby as evidenced by the experience of children adopted as babies."

Oh well, if it's not that traumatic to the baby ... Hmm

Children and teenagers adopted as babies very often have issues. It's not at all unproblematic. In child protection scenarios everything is done to keep mother and baby together and removing a newborn is a last resort.

Even teens and adults conceived via sperm donations can have issues around their origins as they grow up. Mass production of surrogate babies is a fairly new phenominon - it's only been possible to produce a baby not biologically related to it's mother for 35 years or so, and the surrogacy industry in it's current form is even newer.

It's a time bomb and its becoming normalised very rapidly.

DontStandSoCloseToMe · 14/05/2020 16:02

I think surrogacy is fine if it's strictly regulated and not for financial gain. Theparenta should be involved in the pregnancy and the surrogate should live relatively locally. It shouldn't be an opportunity for wealthy men or couples to buy the use of often economically deprived women from poorer countries. This situation must be horrific for those women who've not only called a child but now must begin to raise it only to them give it away. The babies will bond too, custody knows the trauma this will cause