To feel sorry for these babies

[Hottoddy1]

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2020/may/14/surrogates-baby-coronavirus-lockdown-parents-surrogacy?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

The tone of the article seems to just be - oh what a shame that covid happened and this has meant surrogate babies can’t get to their intended parents. Absolutely no concern for firstly the trauma to the babies leaving the caregiver they are bonded with after who knows how long and secondly no acknowledgement that perhaps allowing people to go to other countries and essentially hire women’s bodies and buy babies might have some downsides for both the women and the babies involved.

DrDavidBanner sorry, I misread - you were actually replying to another poster

Incredibly sad for everyone involved.

In my time as a social worker I removed 2 babies at birth. There were no lasting effects on the babies

Unless you raised them to adulthood yourself you cannot possibly know this.

@AllIMissNowIsTheSea I agree with you completely, I was responding to @PlanDeRaccordement

“For women who are happy to be surrogates with no financial recompense, I’m not morally opposed. I appreciate that this massively limits the availability of women willing to be surrogate mothers, but that’s an acceptable consequence imo.”

? WTF. So it’s ok for a woman to do it for free, but not to be compensated for her time, the risks and suffering via a tax free payment, free medical care, and all other expenses reimbursed. That is crazy.

If you really are a social worker then surely you would have learned about attachment and separation trauma in your studies?

Sigh, yes I really was a social worker, although I'm not sure how to prove it. Attachment and speration trauma doesn't happen when a baby is removed immediately as it hasn't bonded.

Oh haha, cross post

There is a huge difference between people adopting a baby which is acknowledged to be better than growing up in care and people deliberately creating a baby with the intention of removing it from its birth mother

I also happen to know a woman who was a surrogate for her sister. 25 years ago, the (now adult child) is fine.

There is no harm what so ever in lending your womb to another

You don’t consider the damage to a woman’s body as a result of pregnancy and childbirth, both temporary and long lasting, to be harm? Let alone the very real risk to her actual life?

Witchcraftandhokum how on earth would you know that unless you've been able to follow those two babies very closely indeed well into adulthood? The exploitation of less well off women and children and the commodification of women's bodies and of babies is the main reason people are against surrogancy, and it has already been explained up thread. Surrogacy is the creation of babies to order, for sale.

Not true @Witchcraftandhokum

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3223373/

Because they are both in their teens now and doing very well

Yes Witch I am sure that people thought that about me when I was a teen too. And they would have been very wrong.

You do not really seem to understand much about this at all tbh.

PlanDeRaccordement are you in America?

Medical care is free at the point of use to everyone in civilised countries.

It’s not that traumatic to the baby as evidenced by the experience of children adopted as babies.

As such an adoptee I strongly disagree.

Trauma doesn't happen if it's immediate. I suggest you look up prenatal bonding and attachment. It's real. The mother's heartbeat and sound of voice are all the baby knows at birth. Absolutely it can be traumatic. And saying they are doing fine is really just outward perception isn't it? A friend of mine outwardly doing fine as an adopted child, now middle aged, has been in therapy for the last year and it all goes back to her beginning. Outwardly to friends and colleagues, she's fine innit. A 70 plus woman I know had her mother day a day after she was born, her doctor (nothing woo) has identified her chronic health issues recently to her start and talking therapy is proving successful. I'm shocked you made such a statement.

Glad you are here Ova. Some people do not seem to want to hear our voices.

Sigh, yes I really was a social worker, although I'm not sure how to prove it. Attachment and speration trauma doesn't happen when a baby is removed immediately as it hasn't bonded.

Of course it's bonded. It's heard its mother's voice every day in the womb. Newborn babies are seen to prefer their mother's scent and voice to other scents/voices. They also have the trauma of learning that their mother surrendered them. This obviously doesn't affect all children in the same way but it's obviously an attachment disruption and a traumatic event.

Completely agree with@AllIMissNowIsTheSea

In a 2018 survey of surrogate mothers,
94% were tested for depression and found to have no symptoms
84% were either satisfied or very satisfied with the compensation package offered. (Only 78% had all expenses reimbursed)
48% had an income of over $75,000 per year (equivalent to £50k/yr)
75% had an income of over $50,000 per year (equivalent to £35k/yr)

You may not like the idea of surrogacy or want to be one yourself, but what gives you the right to police other womens choices when the evidence shows that the vast majority of surrogate mothers are happy with their decision?

Sorry.her mother died after a day I meant. This is the most sceptical woman you could imagine, a scientist in fact but 70years later she's working through it.

I have grown progressively more opposed to surrogacy. When it was unusual, and the surrogate known to the family, it was more acceptable.

Now it's become commercial, then no. It's not ethical.

The child doesn't ask for the situation. The risks to the mother are significant. The benefits are entirely for the 'commissioner' of the child. The complexity legally suggests to me that this is an area that legislation cannot adequately cover.

AllMiss
No I am not in America. But the US has the longest history of regulated surrogacy and the vast majority of scientific studies done on surrogacy were done on US surrogate mothers.

Sigh, yes I really was a social worker, although I'm not sure how to prove it. Attachment and speration trauma doesn't happen when a baby is removed immediately as it hasn't bonded.

We care more about animal babies than human ones. Try going to the doghouse section on Mumsnet and suggest we remove puppies at birth. You'll get your arse handed to you for 40 pages!

Only a few weeks ago there was huge outcry about Joe Exotic taking a tiger cub from it's mother at birth. Somehow though many of the same people think it's no biggie for human infants.

If being a surrogate is so great, why do these baby buying businesses operate at scale in poor countries where women have limited other choices?

Where are the armies of affluent women being surrogates (and prostitutes for that matter).

Women’s bodies shouldn’t be for sale.