To feel sorry for these babies

[Hottoddy1]

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2020/may/14/surrogates-baby-coronavirus-lockdown-parents-surrogacy?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

The tone of the article seems to just be - oh what a shame that covid happened and this has meant surrogate babies can’t get to their intended parents. Absolutely no concern for firstly the trauma to the babies leaving the caregiver they are bonded with after who knows how long and secondly no acknowledgement that perhaps allowing people to go to other countries and essentially hire women’s bodies and buy babies might have some downsides for both the women and the babies involved.

Years ago the mother used to be referred to as such - surrogate mother. Now here we are with talk of surrogates. How dehumanising.

It is horrible disgusting industry and should be banned.

Well if you don’t wish to read it, don’t. Other people are entitled to discuss it.

Yes, and in the same way, I'm entitled to give my opinion too?

AllMiss,

It is no more traumatic to a baby than being adopted. Should we ban all adoptions then? There is no rational argument to say surrogacy should be banned because of trauma to the newborn because the trauma is no more than adoption.
Children and teenagers who were never adopted also frequently have issues. And from a child protection standpoint, babies are also removed from unfit mothers.

Children and teenagers adopted as babies very often have issues. It's not at all unproblematic

I agree AllMiss and I was adopted as a baby.

It is no more traumatic to a baby than being adopted. Should we ban all adoptions then? There is no rational argument to say surrogacy should be banned because of trauma to the newborn because the trauma is no more than adoption.

It's a different thing though. A baby is taken away from an unfit mother for adoption because that is in its best interests, not to satisfy the needs of someone else to be a parent.

I feel sorry for the babies born into abusive families by parents who don’t care about them and who prioritise their drug/alcohol habits. For those babies growing up in neglected situations, unloved and subject to abuse either physical/mental or sexual.

I don’t feel sorry for babies born via surrogacy spending their lives with their loving biological parents.

The delay in being united with their biological parents is very unfortunate but during covid many babies born are delayed in being with their parents. For example my friends baby born 8 weeks premature - she is only allowed to see her for 15 minutes a day and the father not at all - she will likely be kept in ICU until close to her expected due date so the first two months of her life spent being cared for by nurses and medical staff not her mother.

It is no more traumatic to a baby than being adopted. Should we ban all adoptions then?

Surrogacy is intentionally creating children to experience that trauma. It's very different than an already-existing child who needs somewhere to live and can't live with their mother.

Children and teenagers who were never adopted also frequently have issues. And from a child protection standpoint, babies are also removed from unfit mothers.

You're comparing apples with oranges. Adoption and Surrogacy are two completely seperate things, and people do them for completely different reasons.

PlanDeRaccordement you are very obtuse if you cannot see how surrogacy is different to adoption.

Adoption centers the needs of a child who already exists. The needs of the child are paramount. Parents are screened and are selected to meet the needs of the child. It makes the best of a bad situation for a child who already exists.

Surrogacy creates a child who would not otherwise have existed for the express purpose of removing them from their mother. It is the deliberate creating of the non ideal neonatal situation. It centers profit for surogacy agencies and fertility clinics, and the wants of well off adults and commodifies the baby and the less well off surrogate mother.

In my time as a social worker I removed 2 babies at birth. There were no lasting effects on the babies. Can anyone explain articulately why they are against surrogacy?

Clearly you've never experienced infertility. There is no harm what so ever in lending your womb to another provided no one is taken advantage of. People give their organs, bloods etc to others so why not this

They get paid well—the surrogacy fee paid directly to surrogate mothers who work for CSP runs from $20,000 to $30,000 per pregnancy, tax-free

Paid well? That's not remotely like being paid well, for a process that takes 9 months and affects health, temporarily and possibly permanently.

That's an absolute joke.

I have experienced infertility but surrogacy was not something we would have considered had it been available at the time - it wasn't really a thing 25 years ago.

DrDavidBanner I agree that adoption and surrogacy are different. Adoption makes the best of a bad situation, centering the needs of a child. Surrogacy creates the situation for profit and centers adults, with the child as a commodity.

I was replying directly to a poster who was comparing the two things and arguing that adoption isn't that traumatic for babies, so it's fine to make them to order for $20,000 a pop.

A baby is taken away from an unfit mother for adoption because that is in its best interests,

So you are saying it is not in the interest of the baby to go with it’s biological parents who demographically are more economically secure(1%) and better educated than their birth mother? Who want the child and have more means to support the child?
Most US surrogate mothers are middle class, educated, married, in work full time and have on average two children of their own. A third child could be a financial challenge for them, but not for the richer biological parents who have no children but desperately want a child, only they can’t due to infertility.

In my time as a social worker I removed 2 babies at birth. There were no lasting effects on the babies

May I ask you how you know this?

I think the bonding that you talk about with the baby is often why I won't foster babies.

I would be happy to foster children but it must be horrible for newborns etc to develop an attachment and not understand why they have to leave.

I don’t have any problem with non-commercial surrogacy. I’m against it as a for-profit activity because it could so easily be an exploitative business, taking advantage of poor women who may see the financial benefit of being a surrogate mother as their only option.

For women who are happy to be surrogates with no financial recompense, I’m not morally opposed. I appreciate that this massively limits the availability of women willing to be surrogate mothers, but that’s an acceptable consequence imo.

ducksback

In my time as a social worker I removed 2 babies at birth. There were no lasting effects on the babies.

If you really are a social worker then surely you would have learned about attachment and separation trauma in your studies?

No, I'm saying that finding a loving home for an already existing baby that needs one is not the same as surrogacy. It's not a valid comparison.

From the viewpoint of the infant, adoption and surrogacy are the same. The child has no memory of anything except the parents that raise him/her.
Everything you write about making best of bad situation, blah blah blah is irrelevant to the frivolous claim that surrogacy causes “untold trauma to the newborn”

May I ask how you know this?

Because they are both in their teens now and doing very well.

Yes, and in the same way, I'm entitled to give my opinion too?

No you’re trying to shut down the discussion. If you werent then what was your aim in letting us all know that there are surrogates or recipients of surrogate babies on MN and that It’s not a “nice” thread?

I mean that’s not you sharing your opinion on surrogacy is it?