To feel sorry for these babies

[Hottoddy1]

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2020/may/14/surrogates-baby-coronavirus-lockdown-parents-surrogacy?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

The tone of the article seems to just be - oh what a shame that covid happened and this has meant surrogate babies can’t get to their intended parents. Absolutely no concern for firstly the trauma to the babies leaving the caregiver they are bonded with after who knows how long and secondly no acknowledgement that perhaps allowing people to go to other countries and essentially hire women’s bodies and buy babies might have some downsides for both the women and the babies involved.

Yes be the thread police if you like

With you as the comment police? Ok

Plan, do you not acknowledge the separation post birth as a trauma for the child that can effect them at a later stage?

I did acknowledge it as the minor and forgettable trauma that it is. Personally splitting up with your children’s father when they are young is far far more traumatic to a child than being placed with your bio mum and dad at birth which you don’t even remember.

baby "industry" in the Ukraine
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8319275/46-babies-destined-parents-Britain-stranded-Ukrainian-hotel.html

So so sad and so wrong and exploitative.

@haawa

So glad it worked out for you in the end.

Sorry, plan, you've shown you're not clued in there I'm afraid, preverbal, developmental trauma is not forgotten and it can be very hard to heal from. It's a pity the baby is so dismissed here.

Attachment and speration trauma doesn't happen when a baby is removed immediately as it hasn't bonded

Bollocks. Both my father and uncle were adopted at birth (separately, this is my uncle on my mother's side) and had decent upbringings in nice, stable families. They both faced massive problems as teenagers trying to overcome the fact that they had biological parents out there who had given them up. Obviously they had been adopted for a reason rather than on a whim but that doesn't mean much to children and teenagers. Despite loving and being very close to their adoptive families, it was very hard for them to get past the fact that their mothers had let them go while they were surrounded with children who were loved and cared for and brought up by their own mothers.

As adults, they've been able to largely reconcile themselves with the idea that it was done in their best interest and that their mother would not have been able to look after them. I imagine that if they had instead been exchanged for money, it would have been far harder, perhaps impossible, to get past.

You wouldn't know this unless they told you. Trauma is not just a descent into alcoholism and drug abuse (and my uncle has had a very poor relationship with alcohol, he's just fortunate that it didn't descend into anything worse) or children screaming all the time and wetting the bed. It is often far more subtle. What my dad and uncle went through is perhaps unavoidable with adoption- but why would you purposely create a situation like this?

Exactly virginwestcoast.

I did acknowledge it as the minor and forgettable trauma that it is

Wow

Thoughts of Kim Cotton, a surrogate mother and Founder, COTS (Childlessness Overcome Through Surrogacy)

www.bionews.org.uk/page_144549

“on average a surrogate receives between £12 to 15K. The payments are paid monthly from confirmation of pregnancy at 5 percent per month. The balance on the registration of the birth. Built into these figures are extra contingency payments for illness, counselling, loss of earnings, childcare, miscarriage, C-sections, multiple births and birth complications.

No COTS couple has ever been refused a Parental Order, so we have assumed that these figures have been acceptable in the family law courts. Personally, I think there should be a cap to expenses as if its unlimited it might attract potential surrogates for all the wrong reasons.

Even with these current payments, there is a great deal of altruism involved and I would hate to see that disappear. Reaching the right balance is difficult as surrogates come from all walks of life. Their needs are very individual depending so much on their personal circumstances: single parent or with a partner, working or on benefits, availability of family support for childcare, driver or non-driver...”
“Education is key, as many people still think surrogacy is illegal, so the stigma remains. Fertility issues should be taught in schools alongside sex education; it's not just about contraception and avoiding STDs.

I have waited 34 years to see the practice of surrogacy recognised as an alternative treatment to childlessness when all else has failed. In my heart of hearts, I have always felt that the generosity of spirit that motivates a surrogate mother to help another couple experience the joys of parenthood is second to none. Not a clandestine affair but a beautiful way for a child to be born amidst the love of the participants. The relationships forged often become lifelong friendships, as it should be.

None of this would be possible without the incredible resilience that infertile couples demonstrate when they embark on their incredibly daunting journey to parenthood. I have nothing but admiration for their bravery.

I feel privileged to work in this field. It's so rewarding. The joy that a successful surrogate journey brings to all parties is magical. Surrogacy is a life-changing achievement and hopefully - with the implementation of new laws - there will be better protection for all those involved, while retaining the best interests of a surrogate child as paramount in all decision making.

COTS has helped with 1063 surrogate births since we started in 1988. Nineteen of those babies have been born to male same-sex couples. Long may COTS continue.”

OP, I saw this article and thought exactly the same thing, the lack of concern about the babies in the article was truly shocking.
They seemed to be a bought commodity that annoyingly couldn't be transferred to the purchaser.
Rather than a newborn child who needs stable attachment and the fourth trimester.
I have also removed dc at birth as a social worker, it was also the least worst option. In my experience it isn't done lightly and social workers are well aware that even very young dc can suffer attachment issues. It is always inflicting a traumatic even on them.
Some will have natural resistance and manage the situation with minimal impact, others won't.
Either way the sale of babies is wrong as is the commercial hire of woman's bodies.

@haawa what a terrible experience. I'm sorry that happened to you

I have absolute no problem with the concept of surrogacy. I think it's a beautiful thing if done for the right reasons.

• It is always inflicting a traumatic even on them. Some will have natural resistance *

Need to proof read more. This should say.

It is always inflicting a traumatic event on them.
Some will have natural resilience.

Hilarious. First surrogacy and adoption are “not a valid comparison” but once you get a few juicy anecdotes of adopted children with mental issues, it’s “why deliberately create an adoption like scenario?”

I have many anecdotes of adopted children who had no mental issues and lived much happier lives for being adopted. Anecdotal evidence is scientifically insignificant and inadmissible.

This is how people justify surrogacy. By dismissing the voices of the children and amplifying those of the adults who want to buy the babies.

I'm so sorry for what you went through @haawa. It really is unspeakable to ask a woman to risk her life in that way. I'm so glad things have worked out for you

I did acknowledge it as the minor and forgettable trauma that it is

How fucking DARE you Plan?

It is widely accepted by most social workers I know that removing babies is very emotionally difficult, even if it is the right thing to do in a particular situation.
I remember by supervisor telling me after I had removed my first baby that she had cried in her car after doing her first removal and she was a practical no nonsense lady.
We do it because it can be right thing to do, it is not done lightly or easily.
That people would create this situation to make money is truly depressing.

I have many anecdotes of adopted children who had no mental issues and lived much happier lives for being adopted. Anecdotal evidence is scientifically insignificant and inadmissible.

I think you're missing the point.

My life hasn't been terrible, no doubt I had a materially better upbringing for being adopted and I don't have mental issues to the degree I can't be a perfectly functioning member of society.

Yet I do struggle with attachment issues and with my own children. I was fairly wild as a teen and ended up becoming a mother myself age 15 out of a need to form a connection I knew was missing but couldn't articulate. It's far from ideal and has taken many years to unpack it all.

It might not be the worst thing that can happen to a child and in many adoption situations it's about what is the least worst choice. But I find deliberately creating children with no connection to their biological roots really abhorrent when it's widely understood that people need and crave those connections even well into old age.

Anything but altruistic surrogacy (an even then I’m uneasy) is truly abhorrent. Real hand maids tale stuff. Of course I feel sorry for the babies and the women.

I'm not sure what your point is @PlanDeRaccordement. Yes, adoption and surrogacy are different. Adoption is usually the best case scenario for when the biological parents cannot take care of the child. However, the biological mother who puts her baby up for adoption- and it is not a decision that is taken lightly- did not purposefully become pregnant for the purpose of giving up her child to adopters. It's far from an ideal situation but adoption is often the best route to take when this situation does occur.

However, you wouldn't want to create this situation intentionally, would you?

I have had problems with attachment my whole life. I have had years of therapy and have anxiety and depression which has ALL been linked back to my start in life. Only now in my forties am I begining to come to some sort of peace with myself.

I chose not to have children because, especially when I was younger, I was worried that I would not love them enough not to want to give them away. I know it probably sounds silly but my fear has always been that I would not be able to love them.

So do not tell me, or anyone else, Plan that this is minor or forgettable.

I get it ducks

No connection to their biological roots

If most surrogacy is to heterosexual couples, i assume there is some connection to their biological roots i.e. the father may be biologically their parent? Actually having typed that, even in heterosexual couples the baby may be biologically related to one of the two parents?

I was adopted but surrogacy deliberately sets this situation up. To want to actually create this situation for a child is wrong. Especially to think that money is involved.

That said, you did just describe a scenario of deeply distressed adolescents trying to overcome the effects of not knowing their mother as "juicy anecdotes" so how the hell do I know what you want?