To think New Zealand has thrown out human rights?

[LilacTree1]

Nodding through these powers

www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12331547&fbclid=IwAR1ZDq19eKTqCU8qp3fSl_rLikEHlk2fSc9NdHXnXAW1NbOMBayws6rqMO4

NZ has been on a hardcore lockdown for over a month and still they're seeing new cases.

Not many though - none for the last three days - and they are all linked to an existing cluster or overseas travel.

I miss taking the piss out of each others nationalities and histories. It's all gotten very serious.

Ah yes, the good old days, when we knew how to laugh at ourselves as well as others

New Zealand has a land mass of roughly the size of the UK but with a population of less than 5 million. It was always going to be easier to control as they don’t live in such cramped conditions like we do.

I’d be living in NZ in a flash with all the new rules/laws, they seem to be handling it very very well.

Not many though - none for the last three days - and they are all linked to an existing cluster or overseas travel.

Yes, I believe the last case that they didn't know where it came from was in early April, so I would say it's probably been two full transmission cycles since they've seen a case of community transmission.

NZ has a population smaller than London in a country that is the same size as the UK land mass. It's not the site of one of the world's busiest airports either. The comparison is, frankly, imbecilic.

X-post with KaronAVyrus.

My MIL is kiwi and my SIL lives there and they think it’s great, how it’s being handled. The article does say they must have reasonable belief that rules are being broken.

DSD lives in NZ and although he says lockdown has been bloody horrendous, he's impressed at how it's been handled.

NZ has been on a hardcore lockdown for over a month and still they're seeing new cases.

We haven’t had any new cases for the past 3 days.

I’m more than happy with the legislation that has been passed. The 300 gang members showing up at a funeral yesterday has shown why it’s necessary.

I don't think you can compare the UK with NZ re Coronavirus.

In NZ there is a population density of fewer than 20 people per km2 compared to 430 per km2 in England - surely NZ has a head start in the war against infectious disease? There is very, very limited public transport and far more people work for small business or sole trader type outfits here rather that the large offices in UK cities. People socialise differently too - in London we were at restaurants and bars every weekend , here people's houses. It also hit the UK mid flu season and NZ when is was still very warm early autumn. This also meant a lot of tourists were leaving, not arriving - it just isn't as busy as a transport hub.

NZ was still badly prepared had the impact been higher. My friend had to source her own PPE for her consultant DH and his colleagues, and with half the number of ventilators/ICU beds per capita than most European countries and not enough staff trained to use the ones they have (at North Shore Hospital anyway), the medical staff I know think it would have been a disaster.

And if herd immunity does turn out to have an impact and /or a vaccine isn't found for years, NZ is slightly screwed from a tourism and economic POV.

And selfishly, I want to be able to go home and visit my very sick dad before it's too late, so the idea that the borders will be closed for a minimum of 18 months or until a vaccine is found, is terrifying.

Tbh i think there will be a flood of people exiting uk in the next few years after how badly this has been handled.
I would be off to NZ or OZ if i could (obviously wouldnt as would take the virus).
But i think some people would think of moving to Germany. And if i were polish i would move home.
Uk has put economy first. And continues to do so even with kids going to school.
And pretty much murdered off our elderly in care homes.
Vulnerable people are scared in case they need medical care. And our schools cant open without killing off teachers and parents

We had our first day of complete freedom today here in NZ. The only restrictions we have now are a limitation on gatherings over 10 people and no pub visits. Restaurants and queues are spaced. It feels so great to be free!
We are not like the UK. We can feed our population from our own land. So if we really have to be, we can be self sufficient for the time being. Obviously many parts of the economy are poked as a consequence of tourism and foreign students drying up but I think we'll be okay.
In terms of human rights, this is a big change to the law, letting police enter homes to break up gatherings they suspect are more than 10 people. Massive incursion on the right to freedom of association and assembly. I would have wanted it to be renewable every six weeks and judicially reviewable. It seems that what they put in place was necessary but hastily drafted.

@TooMuchBloodyChoice

I really admire JA and think she is a force to be reckoned with. I wish she was PM over here!

Don't worry Toomuch, my brother lives there and I've already asked if we can borrow her indefinately

Enter people's homes to take thrm away to quarantine camps? Noone can see a problem with that?

The fury of some on both "sides" in the UK - lockdown or relaxing lockdown - now evidently extends to what other countries do

Maybe consider that the elected governments in those countries are doing what is suitable for their individual country
and also what their public prefer

So NZ and Sweden at the 2 extremes of the argument have both done what suited their populations
Both have significant disadvantages as well as good points

but probably neither could give a shit that some people in the UK are furious at them and some regard them as role models.

@Viviennemary- I spoke to my friend on 22nd March and they hadn’t closed schools, pubs or restaurants at that point. Not sure if they did at a later date.

New Zealand certainly got "lucky" in several ways. The population is less dense than a lot of countries (although in the main cities we're not all calling cooee across valleys to each other like some people are making out), the traffic system relies much more on the private cars than public transport, and we had the benefit of a delayed arrival of the virus compared to Europe.

That said, the government's decisiveness when presented with the evidence of how fast the virus moves, excellent communications, willingness among the population to co-operate with the lockdowns and very rapid scaling of what was an initially under-prepared health system has put the country in an excellent position to recover rapidly.

NZ isn't screwed from a tourism POV, certainly not more so than the rest of the world. Australia and China are our two biggest international markets but more than half of tourism in NZ is domestic. NZers themselves will make up for some of the losses, as who would head off on a holiday to the UK or US now?! As Jacinda said, time to enjoy our own (amazing) backyard.

"Enter people's homes to take them away to quarantine camps?"

Most countries have some emergency provision to quarantine people whose behaviour risks spreading dangerous infectious diseases

• not a new invention with COVID

Years ago during the dangerous phase of the AIDS epidemic,
Sweden "interned" prostitutes who ignored safety advice and had sex without condoms

I live in Germany where - ever since the COVID epidemic started - once someone has tested positive,
they are officially informed they must stay home and there are frequent checks on this.
People face heavy fines or even imprisonment if they are found to have broken this rule

I'm a Kiwi.
Plenty of not-conspiracy-theory prone folks quite concerned about this back in NZ.

Time will tell.

I'm a bit concerned that our approach has mirrored China's approach and how much interference has occurred there. We receive a lot of ongoing aggressive political pressure from China due to geopolitical positioning.

@PicsInRed - for someone who apparently no longer lives there you seem to be overly invested in what goes on. No-one I know is even remotely concerned, and I'm there.

I’m really glad our government is taking it seriously, it’s working. It’s terrifying watching what’s going on in the rest of the world, especially the UK. It’s horrible not knowing if/when I’ll see my family there again. I’m so grateful to be in NZ with a fantastic PM who isn’t afraid to make the hard decisions

And selfishly, I want to be able to go home and visit my very sick dad before it's too late, so the idea that the borders will be closed for a minimum of 18 months or until a vaccine is found, is terrifying.

Oh gosh - I honestly deeply sympathise witches. For all of the logic, good of the society and all of that stuff this would be heartbreakking for anyone.

My only thought is that surely the borders won't' be closed for you to leave to see your dad but may be closed or heavily controlled for you to return. It's an epic journey from nz to uk (i've done it a few times and it is beyond normal ideas of a 'long flight' (luckily ds and I were ok going east ((i always am for some reason)) and just exhausted and wrung out and a bit catch anything anywhere near us'ish when we flew back east). But if this could genuinely be your last chance to see dad i think you've got to do everything you can to make it happen for your sake at least as much as his. So sorry you're facing this.

And selfishly, I want to be able to go home and visit my very sick dad before it's too late, so the idea that the borders will be closed for a minimum of 18 months or until a vaccine is found, is terrifying.

Surely the borders are closed to those coming in, not leaving.