To think New Zealand has thrown out human rights?

[LilacTree1]

Nodding through these powers

www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12331547&fbclid=IwAR1ZDq19eKTqCU8qp3fSl_rLikEHlk2fSc9NdHXnXAW1NbOMBayws6rqMO4

"Well as an actual New Zealander with friends and family still there I can tell you there are no human rights abuses in New Zealand, doesn't happen, there's no willingness to accept it and the media snd population have plenty to say if they disagree and don't mind speaking out. Laws are generally speaking not abused as there's simply to much accountability."

Sorry but that's so naive! If you're a Kiwi you must be familiar with our track record on human rights, including our record of infanticide (one of the worst in the world), our dire poverty levels and a system which supports the incarceration of Maori. We are doing better than a lot of places but to say we stick to the law and treat everyone fairly under that law is laughable.

Minty - I meant in the MSM. Or, apparently, Facebook, but I’m not on that so can’t be sure.

Like in the report you linked to on the New Zealand Herald where comments from people against it were reported?

Or the ones on TVNZ? The ones in The Press?

I’ve seen a dozen posts about it on twitter today. If people are silencing detractors, they aren’t very good at it.

@HaraKeke sadly I have to agree with you 😕

Minty - thank you, that’s good to hear.

I wouldn't mind being in New Zealand either! But with a population almost half of that of the whole of London, it's a bit like comparing apples with oranges.

Interestingly "that content is no longer available"...re the OP's link!

An overlooked issue: The NZ economy is heavily dependent on tourism. This has swayed from American to European, to Japanese (when I was there) to Chinese. etc.

The one thing missing from this success story is any form of immunity, herd or otherwise.

No country can declare victory from 'all this' til the effects of their own strategy has been evaluated.

'God, I'd love to live in NZ right now!'? But if your UK family would have to spend how long in quarantine to do so, say?

another actual NZer here, & our bubble are pretty happy with the way that JA is managing this country's response to CV19.
I think the amendment is with regard to acting on any potential groups or parties of greater than 100
But as previous posters have said our country has been fairly compliant & with less than 25 deaths overall have been very fortunate to not be hugely affected by the virus. Said in the sense that we have a geographic advantage with a slight advantage on other countries with different border control/management

Harekare I am far from naive. Or sheltered. As for poverty levels and incarceration of Maori those are complicated issues caused by events that happened long, long ago and exacerbated by people who think they should be paid lots of money to sit around and do bugger all. I was telling my friend about the Maori gangs the other day her jaw was nearly on the floor. My father used to deal with them and I know exactly how they work.
I had Maori friends at school and the reality is anyone who is law abiding and hard working will get on (they certainly did) and anyone who is a criminal won't. The Maori kids I was at school with got offered amazing future career opportunities I could only dream about specifically because they were Maori. But It's not a wealthy country and if you want to have wealth you need to work and live in a place you can make money.
Maori activism and rights are far more prominent and have more of a platform than any other indigenous people in any country I can think of.
Of course there is some history behind that, and abuses happened (my family are from Ireland/the uk so not loading up with guilt on that one, sorry).
But the the Maori wiped out the moriori so hardly blameless there either.
So feel free to feel terribly sorry for yourself but the bottom line is New Zealand has in some ways shot itself in the foot with its overly left wing approach. Anyway it's late here and I've got a fuck load of work to do tomorrow. I'd love to debate human rights further but I won't be getting paid if I do.

The article is still there the link is just playing up.

You don’t need to move to NZ. There are JAs everywhere. You just need to elect them.

@vodka I bet your view would be different if your not so distant ancestors had been treated the way the Maori were and they have had to live the consequences of that treatment for many many years. How on earth did this thread turn to a race discussion? Can we get it back on track to Covid?

@Vodkacranberryplease

Not sure where to start with your post but you are way off the mark, sorry. I wouldn't use "naive" though, but priviledged.

It's not as simple as saying "Maori shouldn't commit crimes then", our system is inherently racist. And referencing the tired Moriori trope puts you on the wrong side of history - you need to do some reading. This is a good place to start.

*privileged

Sigh

I’m watching from a distance but I would say based on my friends and family, around 75/80% are happy, the rest range from cautiously questioning and critically analysing the response and progress to downright fruitcakes (DStepmums hippy sister wants to attack all the 5g masts and have a bonfire on JAs front lawn, DBro wants the trans Tasman travel bubble up and running, all businesses open and trade started immediately, friend keeps posting that it was created by US intelligence).
I’d feel more comfortable with a definite sunset clause particularly as some groups will feel unfairly targeted, but equally understand why they’re reluctant to do so.

No country has all the answers, some will definitely manage this better than most, and when this is all over, there’s going to be a lot of hindsight deployed. Hindsight is 20/20, but I’m grateful I’m not the one making the decisions anywhere.

@Vodkacranberryplease

Wow - I'm not sure where to start with this. As a pākehā New Zealander, there's a lot to understand about past trauma being current pain - this includes a system that is geared up to serve pākehā and doesn't acknowledge in general a Māori world view. Suffice to say, a huge swathe of pākehā are now starting to understand this and realise that it isn't about just offering equal opportunities to all... And your point about the Moriori has been completely discredited by modern historians and is now really only used in NZ by groups with a certain viewpoint and agenda to push.

As a kiwi in NZ, I strongly support Jacinda and the coalition government in the steps they've taken against Covid19. I feel safe and unanxious for the first time in a couple of months. However, I am concerned about the legislation as despite its good intentions, there is a potential for it to be used to overreach, and continue discrimination. We have elections coming up in September and I suspect that this will be a good modifier on any abuse of power....

The people trust in their government.

Vodka cranberry, anyone who comes out with that tired old racist crap about the moriori is showing their ignorance. I thought that nonsense died out in the 70s.

I am in NZ. I have faith that the government will do what needs to be done and that our rights won’t be removed. NZ‘s are quick to challenge where necessary if it looks like the legislation lingers unnecessarily.

@miljea

*An overlooked issue: The NZ economy is heavily dependent on tourism. This has swayed from American to European, to Japanese (when I was there) to Chinese. etc.

The one thing missing from this success story is any form of immunity, herd or otherwise.

No country can declare victory from 'all this' til the effects of their own strategy has been evaluated.*

Yes, it's an important industry, but more than half of NZ's tourism earnings are from domestic tourism, and of international visitors 40 percent come from Australia, which is a greater market than China.

With the likely opening of a 'travel bubble' between NZ and Aus before the end of the year and NZers spending more on domestic travel instead of going overseas, the hit to the industry might not be all that bad in the bigger picture.

But regardless, the whole world's tourism industry is going to take a hit. Really, who is going to spend money to pack themselves into a plane to head off from one coronavirus hotspot to the next, with the risk of ending up in isolation overseas?

Naturally occuring herd immunity is a pipe dream (how often has it ever happened population-wide?), especially when you add in open borders between countries. An effective vaccine is currently the only realistic path out of this for everyone.

I know it's trite but I love her earrings!

A New Zealander and I think this legislation is appalling and the blind support of it by the Greens is disgraceful and a betrayal of what they claim to stand for. On top of the revelations yesterday out pouce were trialing facial recognition technology without authorisation it is incredibly worrying.

I disagree with my fellow New Zealander’s who say we are quick to challenge such things. I think we have a history of blindly accepting such incursions on our freedoms.

That should read *Our police

For those who say UK is a travel hub: Hong Kong, Singapore, Taiwan, s Korea, Germany, Slovakia. Many implemented some sort of border control early (though I believe Germany did keep a couple of borders with Netherlands and Belgium open). And in many cases had quarantine.

The UK reluctance to do this early resulted in a much bigger epidemic. I believe there has still been no quarantine from abroad implemented. One would argue that with a high population density, it was even more crucial to lockdown the borders early.

@Bananice
Agree with you all the way

Sometimes tight restrictions can mean more freedom in different ways. NZ will be out of lockdown quicker than UK. They will be more free to see relatives, travel, work in their local area.

The uk actually has v restrictive rules regarding infectious TB. But people don’t complain.