to wonder why do we treat picky eaters like their 'naughty'?

[calpolatdawn]

Ive always disagreed with this,making particular eaters as children feel awful and 'the parents made them. that way' maybe because theres ASD in my family we don't have a choice of 'shoving anything infront of them' and making them eat it. Even non ASD people have sensory issues regarding food, its usually smell, texture, taste, is it 'soggy' food or 'lumpy'. As a child i was picky, my mum didn't cook 5 meals she just didn't make things she knew i wouldn't like. and put serving dishes on the table so i picked up what i would eat and left what i wouldn't, there was never ever power fights, when i got older if i was being arsy i was told to make something myself then. And i would. No battles. As an Adult i am still particular more so with fruit than veg, i only eat 2 types of fruit and will to this day not eat lumpy yoghurts. Im not being 'whiny' or difficult, its not easy going through life with aversion to foods and going to a buffet and sighing that you could only eat 3 things. I don't think anyone would choose to be like that. I have 1 child who is like me, and one who isnt and is much more flexible. Is it just me who feels making children feel naughty for being picky eaters is wrong?

When I was younger I would eat almost anything,except liver, sprouts and tripe plus at Christmas dried figs. I'm a lot fussier now as I don't like the texture of some things I used to love. I've also got a digestive issue which means I've got to be careful about eating somethings .

I think people use "picky" to describe lots of different things though. Some people on this thread are using it to mean "I don't like apples, dh doesn't like fish etc", other people are using it to describe very extreme eating behaviours, like only eating apples or fish. Some people are describing actual food aversions linked to sensitive taste buds or sensory issues. It's hard to discuss it when it means so many different things to different people.

I'm a vegan but within that I will eat literally anything, there is nothing I don't like or can't eat, but I get called picky all the time. My best friend will only eat chicken pasta, biscuits, and one or 2 other things and it completely dominates her life.

There's a massive difference between disliking specific foods, and refusing to eat entire food groups. While neither should be treated as naughty, the latter is clearly a problem. When my DS tells me "I've eaten my carrots but I don't want my broccoli" I say "fair enough" and clear his plate. When he tells me that he won't eat any vegetables, that's a problem. No one should be forced to eat anything they don't like - I remember my dad insisting I finished food I hated and I would often throw up from it. But at the same time not every meal is going to have all of your favourite foods. You need to eat fruit and veg even if you don't love it. If you don't like fish or chicken or tofu or whatever then fine, but you need to eat some sort of protein. At the end of the day we need food for health. But the term "picky" tends to lump people with certain food preferences together with those who have intolerance, ethical dietary needs, aversions, additional needs etc which isn't helpful as they all need a different approach.

Also someone upthread said that beans weren't a vegetable which isn't true, they do count as one of your 5 a day (but only once, like juice).

@cabingirl I tend to make them as a side.

I suppose a lot of this is what people class as picky. I have no issue with people disliking a few foods. When we have people over for Christmas a few don't like Brussel sprouts. I just put all the veg in separate dishes. However my brothers' DC came for Christmas dinner and I had to cook turkey dinosaurs and chips whilst everyone else ate a roast. I made it and never said anything but I don't think it is healthy and it was a pain in the arse.

I think it entirely depends on the child and the situation. I have to say , I have huge understanding for those with genuine sensory issues with food but frankly they usually have lived with it for so long they have work arounds and often are not the ones making a fuss or palaver over it. I get incredibly irritated by the attention seekers though.

Ds1 is ASD and he has a mix. There are times when he genuinely has a sensory reaction to a food and there are times when hes being a difficult 7 year old. I know the difference and deal with it accordingly.

Certain behaviours like overt retching are unnecessary and get a consequence. You don't need to be rude if there is a food issue. Ever.
We have certain rules , like a food must be at least tried 3 times (separate occasions) before you are allowed to claim you don't like it. On the flipside we as parents have a rule they are never to be forced to finish the plate so that they are able to develop the understanding of being full.

However these will be impacted sometimes, ds1 had a really bad sensory day last week. Poor sod , all the change in routine and stress of lockdown got to him. I mad this favourite meal but I saw from the first mouthful his brain was just not going to let him eat it that day. So no , he didn't have to eat it but we discussed why.

So I would be doing him no favours if I pandered to every 7 year old decision he didnt like , I'm sorry but its lazy parenting. What I do believe is that it should be a middle ground. They should know they have a choice on food but if you want to operate in society or a community you have to accept a level of appropriate behaviour. Finally what a child doesnt like at 7 might not be the same at 13. I hated mushrooms with a passion until I was 14 , now I eat them practically daily. So just saying they don't have to eat something ever again is silly. They need to try things but there is no need for being forced to sit at a table for hours. That's a bit nuts.

Honestly, it depends.
I once dated an (assumed) NT man who was super picky. Refused to eat fruit, veg, anything with sauce, pasta had to plain. It was exhausting and made it really really hard to eat out as he "only" ate at KFC and Mcdonalds, and even then made them amend their orders.

But on the other hand, he probably couldn't help it. If you don't like it, then you don't like it.

Some of these replies are so annoying. I'm fussy and it's not because there is anything wrong with me and absolutely no one spoilt me but you will not make me eat fish or seafood. It tastes horrific to me

I don't think this is "fussy" per se. It's a preference. Fussy to me is not that you won't eat certain things, but that that you will only eat certain things.

F

Sorry to pick your post of many, @Poetryinaction but

"I can't eat sweet and sour, celery or other peppery foods, marshmallows, smoked salmon or mushrooms."

Isn't picky. That's normal preferences and likes/dislikes. I will eat almost everything but cannot abide goats cheese, lamb, liver or brussels sprouts.

Picky is excluding whole food groups, or only eating freezer food, refsusing to eat anything green, suspicion of unknown foods, refusing anything with a sauce, or anything without potatoes, or having to have a specific brand because everything else is rank or disgusting.

I don't think there is anyone on earth who eats absolutely everything and doesn't think "eww, liver" or whatever. It's when the "eww, liver" foods comprise a larger group than the "yum, chicken" group that you've got a problem. Everyone knows that one picky eater who you won't eat out with because they scan an entire menu and say there's nothing they can eat. Total pain in the arse.

I don't believe for one second that all picky eaters have autism. Some may, most don't. They are just set in their ways, unadventurous, unwilling to live a little and try an avocado or some hummus.

"Thing is, SN aside you can learn to like almost anything, you just need to try it enough times"

No, never could take to pigs trotters, or many of the dishes my South African father cooked and ate. I did used to eat liver. I'm fussy about the meat that I eat, my African friends cook up some very suspect stuff and fish that have teeth that would take off your arm, they mix fish and meat which I won't eat, I politely pass.
Walking around a Chinese wet market, we'd all get called fussy.

My autistic DD has a limited diet, but will have items off a roast dinner, steak, breakfast menu and spicy chicken, so eating out has never been an issue. I don't see how her not eating vegetables impacts me tbh.

Neither of us are fussy when it comes to alcohol, though.

Re it being a first world problem, children used to be seen as having a failure to thrive and die. Malnutrition would lead to pneumonia.

There are all sorts of things that can cause fussiness, not all are apparent. My DD (3yo) had a medical condition that meant she couldn’t swallow solid food from 18 months till she was nearly 2.5. Prior to this, she was a good eater. Since she had her operation, she can swallow perfectly well and she’s neurotypical. But having not been able to eat for such a long time, she seems to have lost the normal response to hunger - it just isn’t motivating for her. Her nursery took the attitude of “young children will eat the meal if there isn’t an alternative and if other children are eating it” - not mine! She’d quite literally rather starve than eat something she doesn’t want. Her dietician (referred under the NHS because of her extreme weight loss - they wanted her to see one once she was able to swallow to assess if she was managing solids) is not in the least concerned. The list of foods she’ll eat is still very small, but the dietician said as long as she had some protein, carbohydrate, fat and fibre each day, and had her vitamin drops, then there is no reason to worry and we certainly shouldn’t apply any pressure at all. I’m dreading her coming across someone who treats her as naughty at school, which seems inevitable at some point.

I shockingly eat brocolli (sort of) now, but I will never forget the memory of my ex step mother trying to force me to eat it and me gagging at the table, I’ve always been fussy/picky etc and don’t get me wrong - if I could choose to be different, I would, I hate it, but can’t help it. I have 3 children, I’ve treated them all the same, the oldest has ended up picky, the middle one will eat anything, third is too young to know yet. I don’t believe it’s sometbjng can be controlled, it’s in someone’s head, I know how far I can push my ds and am more sympathetic than most because I know how it feels. I think there is a certain arrogance to people who try to force anybody to eat something that they done want to (within reason) it’s very damaging. At 33 years old I can hand on heart say “I don’t like it” and someone jerk always says “how do you know if you’ve not tried” - I fucking know. There are certain types of foods I’m willing f to try. Some that I outright won’t try because I know full well I don’t like it and I’d say it’s a muncher bigger “brain issue” than people think.

Most people do not have ASD or sensory issues. Therefore most parents encourage children to try new things. Not treating them as naughty, just encouraging trying things. It's just parenting. Children do not always know what is best. Mine often said they didn't like various things at various stages. Now they do. It wasn't always easy but I'm glad I persevered when I did.

They're not being naughty, but my word, they are hard work.

My eldest is picky for her age (she was done when she was three!!). She won't eat her vegetables or fruit. She's a junk food junkie and it drives me crazy. She'll pick over the delicious, nutritious, home cooked meal that I've prepared and then fill up on toast or cereal half an hour later.

It's inconvenient, annoying, and we like to force children to do as they are told regardless of the reasons that they initially probably can't even communicate with us, it starts SO young.

Picky eater here... and yeah that chocolate thing is utter bollocks, I could leave chocolate in the cupboard for a year, theres easter eggs and christmas stuff in there from LAST year!

I have a strong retch/gag reaction and an aversion to quite a lot of things - fish, meat on the bone, meat with its original texture, anything too coarse or chewy.

I also have, and have likely always had, a sliding hiatus hernia which causes reflux and issues with swalllowing, only diagnosed last year so no one had a clue why I hated certain things, needed a drink with food, really disliked anything dry or claggy.

Some of my issues are likely sensory things and fits with the ASD that I strongly suspect affects me, my sister and my Dad (but being girls my sister and I are very good at masking, me more so than her) - have not bothered seeking a dx for that since its a long process that will achieve nothing of use for me (been through it with OH though).

You know what NONE of it is about... being annoying, being a pain, trying to intentionally irritate or piss people off. It's actually got fuck all to do with anyone else, and it has affected me to a great or lesser degree for my WHOLE life.

So when you sit down to a meal at a friends and you haven't had to go through the shit you will and will not eat, and you haven't had to panic about what if they have made something you forgot to tell them about...

Or you go out for a meal and you don't have to worry about whats on the menu because you know you will happily enjoy almost anything...

Or you go round to a relatives and you know even if the meal isn't your favourite or its not well cooked you can still get it down without gagging and bursting into tears...

Fab, brilliant for you, I am really pleased... because that is not what life is like for those of us labelled 'picky eaters' who are a 'pain in the arse'.

Sometimes I have to tell people I am vegan to stand a chance of being served something that won't make me vomit.

I have to go through a list of things I can't have due to my diabetes, hernia, gastroparesis or my gallstones.

Frequently, what I will eat is junk food, not because I love junk, but because it tends to be soft, moist and of a uniform, predictable texture and flavour that I know for sure won't vary from restaurant to restaurant.

I like plenty of healthy stuff, love a good salad, love fruit (can't eat much of it, because hello diabetes), love roasted veg (ditto) but yeah, hi, im 40 years old and food is a fucking pain in the backside for me, if it inconvinences you for a SECOND, just think how fucking frustrating MY life actually is!

I'm a picky eater - and not at all autistic.

My attitude is, why food?

You wouldn't complain that people were 'picky readers' for not being willing to pick any book off a shelf and read it, preferring to choose the type they like, or 'picky viewers' for wanting to change the TV channel in case there was something they'd enjoy on the other side.

Are we 'picky' for trying on more than one wedding dress before deciding which to buy, even though the first one fitted perfectly? Or 'picky' for wanting a rug which matches our sofa, when they all cover the floor?

We are lucky - we don't live in a world where we have a choice of 'that or nothing.' That doesn't make it a character fault.

I have a fairly bland diet and there are certain common foods I can't eat because of taste or texture issues. As a child, going without a meal was preferable to trying to eat one of them, and I imagine that had there been no other food available, my health would have suffered. I also can't tolerate any sauces or dressings, which is my main problem in restaurants.

As an adult I was once in a situation where I was extremely hungry and was offered a sandwich containing one of the foods I don't eat. I tried it anyway, reasoning that if plenty of other people like eating it, it couldn't be that bad. I couldn't finish one bite. It was as if it registered as 'not-food' to my brain.

I'm autistic, but I only became aware of that in my mid-twenties. As a child I was seen as a picky eater with 'no reason' for it. That's why I'm sceptical of people saying that they don't mind it if someone has SN, but hate neurotypical picky eaters. You might not know about their condition. They might not know about it yet.

The biggest difference as I've gotten older is that I'm less anxious about being honest about it. If people judge me for not eating a wider range of foods, that's their problem, and makes them fairly narrow-minded and unpleasant.

"No, never could take to pigs trotters"

How many times did you try them? I agree that there seem to be some foods that no matter how many times you try them, you just can't stand them. Mine is coffee, and I really really have tried. But from the (not particularly lengthy) list of my dislikes at 18, that's pretty much the only one left. And I include most of the offerings of Asian food markets in that - I spent time in a country where refusing offered food, however unusual, was the ultimate in insults. I don't deny that some people have serious food issues. But just as many people assume from childhood onwards that if they don't like something the first time it passes their lips, then that's the end of it. That's what I call picky!

Those of us with restrictive eaters tend to do our best to ensure they do eat a balanced diet - the only vegetable DD eats is broccoli. She gets it every day. She has visibly put on weight since lockdown despite fewer snacks because she isn't having school lunches (she's KS1). Or, more accurately, not having school lunches -she would usually have just plain pasta (which I know the school permits). She tells me none of the puddings are edible (for her). So offering her the same food as other children hasn't worked, though that isn't a surprise as she ate nothing at nursery for the first 6 months (was there 9-1, so we fed her afterwards). That's what mild restrictive eating looks like - her weight is OK.

I don't mind picky eaters as long as 1. they will admit that they are picky and 2. not make me have to adapt to their restrictions. So don't say "oh any restaurant is fine" and then moan that there is nothing for you on the menu. And don't tell me I cannot order something because you don't eat some ingredient in the dish. I will not shame you or make you feel bad as long as your pickiness doesn't affect me.

I agree with you OP.

If people like eating certain foods, they are healthy and well, and it’s not harming them or anyone else then I don’t see the issue. I also don’t think it is down to parents as I have one child who will eat anything (even things that aren’t foods), one who will eat a wide range of things and another who really only likes half a dozen meals. There is no fuss over it and they are fit and well.

DH eats anything, even if he dislikes it he will still eat it. I tend to eat things I know I like and enjoy rather than trying anything new. We are both happy that way and it’s not caused any problems as adults.

Because it's so annoying catering for a picky eater.

I think parents of children who eat a wider variety of foods like to feel it's their superior "parenting" whereas it's simply their kids eat a wide variety of foods. I was always fussy (eg hated baked beans from birth I think) and still am. DS is reasonably fussy, DH isn't.

I guess in the days when food was scarce you had to eat what you could get and there was no room to be fussy so now people feel that it's a character flaw. But actually food is really important and it's no fun eating things you don't like. You can learn to like some things, but equally there are things I used to like as a child and don't like now (eg banana, which is a pain as it's such a useful food if you are a runner). I also don't really like fish now either other than battered fish and chips.

A lot of it is down to texture and you just can't get past that despite this comment It’s also not really sustainable in adult life for people to exclude whole classes of food because they don’t like the texture, for example I do struggle in restaurants sometimes but that's because I don't eat red meat and then there are unimaginative veggie options like goats cheese. Or they shove bits of pork in a soup that could have easily been veggie like leek and potato, or ham in a turkey pie or a fishcake. Keep things simple, they can still taste good!

I was a picky eater as a child and was made to spend hours sitting at the table in front of long-since cold dinners. It didn't do me a bit of good! It just upped the feelings of anxiety that I had at meal times and made me even less likely to try new things. By the time I was in my late teens I ate toast or bananas for nearly every meal.

When I was in my mid-twenties and finally had nobody scrutinising what I was eating I was able to relax and start to try new things and now I eat a really varied (vegan) diet full of mushrooms and courgettes and lentils and all sorts of other things that I could not eat as a child.

My kids are now fussy eaters and I don't pander to them. I serve up food and they can eat it or not eat it. I don't make them something else until the next meal but I don't make them feel guilty or punish them for not eating.

Yellowsubmarine it's only annoying if you make it annoying. As a 'fussy' adult I am happy to provide my own food if needs be if eating at a friend or relatives house, but people with an attitude like yours are what made my younger years more difficult. Someone up thread complained about having to do turkey nugget things and chips for a child at Christmas. That would of needed one extra baking tray shoved in the oven. Not a big deal.

My eldest is and always has been a good eater so if she doesn't like something she really doesn't like it.
My youngest is good with her fruit and vegetables but there is a lot of things she won't eat especially anything with a sauce and is very particular about what brands she'll eat. It is probably down to her autism but maybe not.
Where I can I will adjust her meal slightly or I will put the dishes on the table and let the children serve themselves (I always make sure there is something she'll eat).
I wouldn't punish children for being picky eaters but if I know they're just messing around then that's different.