AIBU - partner wants me to stop speaking Italian with my mum

[countrywalks1]

AIBU? Me and my partner have been staying at my mum's flat because of covid issues. She told me after 2 days here that she feels it's rude that I speak Italian with mum in front of her as she doesn't know what's going on and doesn't understand the language. I replied saying I understand it must be frustrating not to know, especially as she's the kind of person who likes to know everything, and the pandemic is really tough on her as she's homesick and hasn't been home properly for months, so I can understand why as she says she feels excluded.

However, my counterpoint was that I usually (about 60%) talk with mum in Italian. Culturally, I would say I'm half British and half Italian - I've mostly grown up in the UK but was born and most of my extended family are and live in Italy. I speak Italian fluently, but if I don't speak it regularly it gets a bit worse as I get out of practice with tenses and conjugations etc.

So I speak Italian with my mum because: 1) for me it's the language we've always communicated; 2) it makes me feel more connected with my Italian culture; 3) it pleases me to practice it; 4) I'm pretty sure my mum prefers talking to me in Italian than in English as she doesn't really get to speak it with anyone after my granddad (her dad) passed away a few years ago as did my very bilingually fluent brother. It's complicated I know!!!!

So told this to my partner, she says she appreciates the reasoning but still unnecessary to speak it when she's there as it feels she's excluded. I told her I understand why but I struggle to understand why she couldn't move past it as I've been in the same situation with friends speaking a language I don't understand where I just talk English when I can, or ask what's going on. The other thing is that usually my mum will save talking to me in Italian for mum things like telling me off or telling me to do something. I emphasised that we're never using it to talk about her or be nasty, and we kind of slip into it naturally.

Still she says she feels excluded, which at this point I understand. She was also in my opinion a bit nasty and in anger said we moved over here to the UK and chose to stay so we shouldn't really be talking Italian anymore anyway, we should be British. This I put down to anger that I wasn't understanding her point of view. In her defence she did also say I could speak it if I taught her Italian, although I struggle that the emphasis is on me to teach her when we have been together for 8 years and even gone over to visit my Italian relatives in Italy and been to weddings etc - without ever having tried to learn. Albeit we've been doing vocational education together throughout this time so many other important things to learn.

So last night I worked really hard to make sure I spoke only in English with everyone, so when mum asked me something in Italian I actively made sure to reply in English.

I just need to know AIBU in feeling disappointed? I understand my partner's frustration, and I can try to cut down on the Italian for a little while because of the circumstances - it's tough being homesick and then not even being able to understand the conversation where you are. It's just the request that I cut down on speaking Italian with my mum when she's also there - as I told her, I expect that I will always see mum with her (we're planning on getting married). I also feel that she's asking me to hide away (in the context of communicating with mum) a little part of my own culture. Therefore, AIBU to not let this lie?

It's fine for you to speak to your mum in Italian when your partner isn't present, but rude if she's there.

I think it makes a difference why you’re currently staying at your mums. ‘COVID issues’ could mean anything.

If you’re staying at your mums for her benefit and your dp doesn’t really want to be there but is compromising and making a sacrifice for you and your family, then its incredibly rude and hurtful for you to exclude them by speaking in a different language.

If your Mum is allowing you and your partner to stay as a favour to you and the benefit is for you and your dp, then your dp should suck it up a bit more because they are already having a favour from someone and expecting that someone to talk in the language they aren’t most comfortable with would be taking the piss.

Way more context needed here.

My partner and his family only speak Cantonese with each other, even though they can speak perfect English they still choose to not do so.

I have actually asked a few times if when I’m around he can at least respond in English so I have some idea about what’s going on but he doesn’t, none of them do.

There has been times when I have sat there for 8 hours on a visit and literally not had one word spoken to me, it truly feels so awful and exclusionary very isolating also.

For me I sometimes can feel cross I’m making the effort to have Cantonese lessons but no once makes the effort with me to at least use a little English to make me feel welcome and wanted.

Whilst some of your partners comments are ignorant I can understand some of her viewpoint, could you not compromise at all and try to include everyone in the conversation?

YABU: It is very rude to speak a different language in front of a person who cannot understand it.

YANBU: She should make the effort to learn Italian.

(we're planning on getting married)

Really? .

My advice would be to dump her not marry her!

I agree that it sounds very worrying her saying that now you live in the UK you should "be British" which apparently means you never speak your other language!

I agree with this and there seems to be a huge attitude problem with languages other than English. I reject the British part equates solely with speaking English. Before the Angles and Saxons became British, there were different, pre existing languages which are indigenous to and still spoken (albeit in relatively small numbers) in 3 of the 4 home nations. One nation and language not even British, if that means from Britain. I think it is wonderful that people are trying to keep these native languages alive.

Don't know what the problem is as people in many countries think nothing of speaking 2 or 3 languages.

I would be trying to learn Italian if I was your partner. It is not as if you are insisting on this, though. An accommodation with English at the dining table and some other times may help. I think it is very sad to be made to feel that it is hostile to communicate through a language which gives your mother such joy. Such a beautiful and rich language, to boot.

Sorry, if you’re all sat in the same room and your partner can’t understand then I think it’s rude. You are deliberately talking so she can’t know what’s going on, and when she’s explained you’ve continued.

Why don’t you set aside an hour so you can talk Italian with your mum, or both go for a walk and talk Italian then. Why don’t you help your partner learn to talk Italian if you are have children and go to raise them bilingualism?

I can see both sides but have to admit having sat through a few conversations where people spoke another language while I sat there smiling like an idiot ... it's not easy. To be honest I think you've a lot to talk about

Like everything - moderation.

Would you sit in a room as one of three people and whisper between yourself and one other?

No. Because it's rude.

If your mother and you are alone, speak Italian. If you are in the presence of someone who doesn't speak the language, speak English.

If your mother had poor English and struggled, I would say speak Italian, but it's not the case.

You should also encourage your OH to learn.

I think you are being very rude (presuming your mum speaks English!) and I'm saying this as someone who grew up in a multi-lingual household. Sure speak Italian with your mum when you are alone together, but if someone else is there who you know can't understand what you are saying then you are deliberately excluding them which is pretty rude at best and nasty at worst. I'm surprised by some of the responses on here advising you to dump her etc.

I came on to say YANBU. But then I saw your mum speaks English. I guess it depends on how well she speaks English. If she is pretty fluent but just prefers Italian then yes its rude especially when you're at the dinner table or just sitting around chatting as it completely excludes her from conversations.

I say that as someone whose husband is from a different European country. His friends and family mostly dont speak english or speak it very badly so I'm used to just tuning them out, but it's quite hard as I dont want to appear rude and read a book in silence or anything so I normally just sit there bored out of my mind. But the few that do speak English fairly easily, they switch to english when they're talking in front of me and then their own language as soon as I leave the room as they think its rude to exclude someone when they can easily include them

Could you compromise on using English some days and Italian others, and your partenr can learn Italian on 'Italion days'?

I think the length of time and exposure could be becoming an issue aswell if you've all been under the same roof for the duration of lockdown.

My partners parents do not speak English, at all. I can speak phrases of their language, but I'm certainly not up to a conversational level. I can say "the food was lovely thankyou" and things like that, in order to be polite when we visit.

Normally, I have no problem at all with my partner talking in her native language, as I quite like it and I find it interesting how much I can follow along with.

When her parents came here for a month last year though, it began to wear me down. Conversations constantly having to be translated, and generally feeling "othered" and left out in my own home. Their native language is a Catagory 4 language, and one classified at the harder end of catagory 4 to boot, so it's not just a simple matter of me learning it. I'd likely have felt even more othered if they were all capable of speaking English but were choosing not to.

I understand the importance of heritage and culture and I understand wanting to do it for your Mum, but your partner finds herself in a situation that is uncomfortable to here, for an extended period of time.

Why not include her in the conversations with your Mum, and teach her as you go? That would interest me and would be a good way to learn. Trying to teach tenses is all well and good, but it's far better to start with understanding phrases that are commonly used. So if your Mum says "Would you like a drink" you could tell your partner, this is what my Mum just said, maybe get her to repeat it, and next time your Mum asks the question, your partner will know what she's asking.

You're "teaching" her, she feels more included, you and your Mum get to speak Italian. It's a win/win.

You’ve been together 8 years are planning to marry and she’s not learned at least some Italian ? That would be a problem to me - If I was with someone whose family spoke another language I’d at least try to learn
What happens if you have children ?

A compromise is needed tho. Maybe speak English when shes around but Italian the rest of the time

I think that when your partner is around it's nicer to speak in English so she can join in, especially if you're all living together at the moment. If your mother didn't speak English or struggled with it, then I'd say differently, but if you can both speak English fluently, why wouldn't you want your partner to be in the position to join in?

I don't think your partner should have said things like you shouldn't speak Italian any more because you live in the Uk. It comes across really badly, but it sounds like she's frustrated.

The other alternative is to translate what you're saying so she understands, but that's quite cumbersome I would imagine and seems unnecessary if you and your mother can just as easily speak in English.

I think you have to be sensitive to the current situation. Everyone is feeling out of sorts with the lockdown and not getting their usual social outlets so your partner probably feels this exclusion more keenly.

Why don’t you help your partner learn to talk Italian if you are have children and go to raise them bilingualism?

This would be a wonderful gift. As European languages go, standard Italian is quite straightforward. You'd also be wiring their brains to make further language acquisition easier.

YABU. It's really rude. You can speak Italian when she's not around surely?

Agree.

To me it sounds like you're trying your best to talk in English and sometimes Italian happens because... Well, because it's your language too!

I'm not sure why so many people are getting their knickers in a twist about her feeling excluded because it sounds like your mum and you are trying to keep it mostly English but sometimes you switch to Italian which is what happens to bilingual people. It's not like a button you press and you stick to one language, you can try your best but sometimes it will happen. Also, it sounds like you're addressing her worries but she's not particularly great at seeing your point of view. The 'you should speak English, you're in England' comment was so unnecessary!

I'm bilingual and over the years I have dated people whose language I don't speak. Sometimes they have to speak their language, it's part and parcel of dating someone from a different country. As long as everyone is polite and it's not done in a malicious 'let's exclude her' way then I don't see what's the problem.

It is really rude to exclude a person via language when there are only three of you and you can all communicate in the common language. Really really rude.

And it's lockdown, and she is 'stuck' in a home not her own. Yes, I imagine she feels quite awkward and it will be making her reassess things quite a bit! You mother especially using Italian to communicate 'mum things like telling me off' is REALLY telling - that's completely inappropriate with you an adult and your partner standing there too and is probably raising slight red flags to your partner, I'd imagine.

I can't see the link at all with the things that everyone is extrapolating - if I were with a bilingual partner, I would feel hugely strongly that he should speak to our children in his native language so that they would be bilingual... I would also feel hugely strongly that they should learn the golden rule that if you're in a group, you use the language of the common group.

If you were in a larger family group this would not be an issue, and presumably it hasn't been before - otherwise you wouldn't be planning to get married?

Her issue does not seem to be with your language. It is with you and your mother's rudeness in excluding her when you don't have to - and especially in these extraordinary lockdown circumstances, when everyone's finding the isolation and the unusual situation tough enough already. I feel for her.

3 people stuck in a flat together, two of whom are communicating in a language the third doesn't understand... that's very rude IMO.

Not a problem at all to speak Italian when it's just the two of you or to include your DP somehow but it must seem really isolating to have two people talking in a language you can't understand.

YANBU
She is seriously controlling now and marriage will not improve her . She is also resentful- rather than embracing your past and culture as well as your language she is acting like the jealous spoiled brat she is .
Do you really think there is a happy future for you with this rather immature woman ?

Learning a new language is a lovely thing to do and it can be a lot of fun. But learning by total immersion while on lockdown with your partner's mum, during a pandemic, is probably one of the less fun ways to learn. Have you thought how lonely it must be for your gf to be on lockdown with two people and most of the time they're talking to each other she can't join in? Give her a break.

I do think it is rude to talk in another language in front of someone who doesn't understand it if all three people have another language in common and speak it well. It must feel awful to be excluded from 60% of the conversation, especially under the circumstances we are in at the moment where this is probably the only social contact she has.
If you and your Mum are in another room having a chat then it's fair enough to talk in Italian but if she is just sitting there while you natter away, I find this very thoughtless of you.

I've been in the same situation with friends speaking a language I don't understand where I just talk English when I can, or ask what's going on.
But it didn't go on for weeks and weeks during a lockdown situation. It sounds like she is completely at the end of her tether and frustrated.

However, there is another issue here and while I think you should speak English with your Mum when the three of you are together, I think that is not the crux of it really. This is....
She was also in my opinion a bit nasty and in anger said we moved over here to the UK and chose to stay so we shouldn't really be talking Italian anymore anyway, we should be British.

I don't like the sound of that at all. She's with a half-Italian partner and this is a part of you which cannot and should not be changed. If that is her attitude she should find a British partner with both parents British.

I also find it strange that she has made no attempt to learn Italian at all. Surely she could have bought a course book and CD long before now and had a bash at it and practised what she learned with you. Languages are not easy but she has had 8 years and could have reached a decent standard by now. It's not up to you to teach her - things like that never work out in my experience but I'm sure you would have supported her if she had shown the initiative. She could have attended a night class too. Surely if she's marrying you, she loves you and would want to communicate with the family.

Hell's Bells... when I was 15 I had a boyfriend whose mother and family were German and he was bilingual. I really loved that guy and I bought myself a German book and tapes with what little pocket money I had (had to save up for 3 months) and learnt some German - even managed to write him a couple of love letters in bad German. Boyfriend didn't last (though I still remember him fondly as my first love) but I speak German fluently now!