AIBU - partner wants me to stop speaking Italian with my mum

[countrywalks1]

AIBU? Me and my partner have been staying at my mum's flat because of covid issues. She told me after 2 days here that she feels it's rude that I speak Italian with mum in front of her as she doesn't know what's going on and doesn't understand the language. I replied saying I understand it must be frustrating not to know, especially as she's the kind of person who likes to know everything, and the pandemic is really tough on her as she's homesick and hasn't been home properly for months, so I can understand why as she says she feels excluded.

However, my counterpoint was that I usually (about 60%) talk with mum in Italian. Culturally, I would say I'm half British and half Italian - I've mostly grown up in the UK but was born and most of my extended family are and live in Italy. I speak Italian fluently, but if I don't speak it regularly it gets a bit worse as I get out of practice with tenses and conjugations etc.

So I speak Italian with my mum because: 1) for me it's the language we've always communicated; 2) it makes me feel more connected with my Italian culture; 3) it pleases me to practice it; 4) I'm pretty sure my mum prefers talking to me in Italian than in English as she doesn't really get to speak it with anyone after my granddad (her dad) passed away a few years ago as did my very bilingually fluent brother. It's complicated I know!!!!

So told this to my partner, she says she appreciates the reasoning but still unnecessary to speak it when she's there as it feels she's excluded. I told her I understand why but I struggle to understand why she couldn't move past it as I've been in the same situation with friends speaking a language I don't understand where I just talk English when I can, or ask what's going on. The other thing is that usually my mum will save talking to me in Italian for mum things like telling me off or telling me to do something. I emphasised that we're never using it to talk about her or be nasty, and we kind of slip into it naturally.

Still she says she feels excluded, which at this point I understand. She was also in my opinion a bit nasty and in anger said we moved over here to the UK and chose to stay so we shouldn't really be talking Italian anymore anyway, we should be British. This I put down to anger that I wasn't understanding her point of view. In her defence she did also say I could speak it if I taught her Italian, although I struggle that the emphasis is on me to teach her when we have been together for 8 years and even gone over to visit my Italian relatives in Italy and been to weddings etc - without ever having tried to learn. Albeit we've been doing vocational education together throughout this time so many other important things to learn.

So last night I worked really hard to make sure I spoke only in English with everyone, so when mum asked me something in Italian I actively made sure to reply in English.

I just need to know AIBU in feeling disappointed? I understand my partner's frustration, and I can try to cut down on the Italian for a little while because of the circumstances - it's tough being homesick and then not even being able to understand the conversation where you are. It's just the request that I cut down on speaking Italian with my mum when she's also there - as I told her, I expect that I will always see mum with her (we're planning on getting married). I also feel that she's asking me to hide away (in the context of communicating with mum) a little part of my own culture. Therefore, AIBU to not let this lie?

Hont1986, my dp did, though we were living in different countries at the time.

My DM learnt Czech after retirement and can, I believe, both speak and read it.

The OP may not have access to full immersion, but she does have access to a 24/7 native speaker, which is not a bad resource.

As I keep repeating, no one is expecting her to learn Italian to conversational level, only to understand it.

Even apart from the OP, you can hardly say she has no access to material to practise her comprehension on. We live in the days of the internet! It takes a 5 second click to arrive at the first YouTube channel with subtitled Easy Italian. She could be listening to Italian singers, hearing Italian news extracts, watching Italian films and television series, following Italians on twitter, joining a chat forum. DVDs are available in the shops and to order. I have a friend who worked her Japanese comprehension levels up to a very good standard after her initial beginners' course by watching Japanese soaps.

I have no pressing reason to keep up either German or French or Italian, but over the last few days I have listened to news clips with Angela Merkel and the German president, had French chansons on in the background while doing the cleaning, and seen parts of an Italian play. It is all so accessible these days, so easy to find.

I wonder how many of the "she's had 8 years to learn" posters have actually successfully attempted to learn a foreign language to a conversational level without immersion.

If living 24/7 in a household that speaks another language is not immersion, I really don’t know what would be. If the wife had made any effort at all during this time, she would be able to understand by now at least what the conversations are about.

It took me about 2-3 months to have a very good idea about what my ILs were saying, speaking takes far longer but I just reply in my own language which they understand and that’s how we have achieved a balance.

would you all be happy to be told not to speak to your mother in the language she brought you up in? I think native English speakers find that feeling hard to identify with, because English is almost always the dominant or common language.
I guess we would have to speak in French, and communication would be hard :) but that's because she doesn't speak much French. She would, however, LOVE it, though I appreciate that is not typical!
In this case, OP's mother speaks good English, so it's more like the case of me and my daughter: I came here as an adult and learned the language as my children grew up bilingually, like the OP. The kids and I speak the local language when locals are around, as we're happy to use either language. We speak English in private (in our case 100%).
Hence my advice to OP to be as thoughtful as possible about whether the other person might feel excluded, but to watch out for the dodgy "you are in X, you must speak X" nonsense.

I do the same with my SIL, Mother
She would be willing to make an effort to speak my language but each speaking our own means she can express herself much more fluently, talk about a wider range of subjects, I can get a much better sense of her personality and who she is.

I also wonder how many of the "a foreign language is so difficult to learn"lot would suddenly insist that someone moving to Italy should have to learn Italian to the standard where they never felt the need to slip into English regardless of the topic of conversation.

I wonder how many of the "she's had 8 years to learn" posters have actually successfully attempted to learn a foreign language to a conversational level without immersion.

Well not this one - as clearly and unambiguously stated previously.

If living 24/7 in a household that speaks another language is not immersion, I really don’t know what would be. If the wife had made any effort at all during this time, she would be able to understand by now at least what the conversations are about.

They have only lived there two months. I don't understand DH's language that well after 30 years despite the fact that he always
talks to the DCs in his language. Some people are just shit at learning foreign languages.

Some people are just shit at learning foreign languages.

But that isn't allowed in the UK. No matter how "shit you are at learning languages" we expect all immigrants to learn it, and make it part of out citizenship tests. (Which is a much higher level that just picking up a flow of conversation ...)

By all means, take a pass for yourself. But then I don't want to keep reading the snippy "learn English" posts that slide into any debate ... on anything really.

Your partner is being completely unreasonable - I had some sympathy until I got to the 'you're living in the UK so speak English' comment. My partner's mother tongue is not English and he doesn't talk to his family in English - it wouldn't occur to me to object, and I would feel awkward if they all switched to English for my sake. My main reaction is to try to listen in and improve my own understanding of the language! I think that, unless you're using Italian as a way to exclude your partner deliberately (which doesn't sound like it), you should feel free to continue.

I once had a Swedish colleague who would converse with other Swedish colleagues in Swedish (this was in the UK but there were lots of Swedes working there) but switch to English the moment anyone non-swedish walked in, even if the conversation didn't relate to them. He could do it mid sentence without missing a beat. I was always impressed by this, and touched by his thoughtfulness, but I certainly never thought it was required.

But that isn't allowed in the UK. No matter how "shit you are at learning languages" we expect all immigrants to learn it, and make it part of out citizenship tests. (Which is a much higher level that just picking up a flow of conversation ...)

It isn't allowed in many other countries either which is why I wouldn't move to a country where English wasn't the first language if I didn't have to. If I did choose to then I would spend all my free time learning the language. I just don't see why I should do it just to communicate with in-laws who I only see very occasionally and can speak English perfectly well.

Some people are just shit at learning foreign languages.

No. The world is full of plenty of very stupid people who are multilingual! We're just terrible at it in the UK, probably because English is so widely spoken so the motivation and urgency are not there.

(I write as someone who doesn't understand and other language very well.)

Speaking the local language is part of most naturalisation tests, and however much Brits might try to speak English when abroad, they are still told they should not be speaking it, and to learn the local language.

Speaking the language of the place you have chosen to live is not the same as speaking the non-local second language of a bf/gf you happen to have hooked up with.

No. The world is full of plenty of very stupid people who are multilingual! We're just terrible at it in the UK, probably because English is so widely spoken so the motivation and urgency are not there.

The multilingual people usually start learning another language as children though. Learning a foreign language as an adult is much harder.

Speaking the language of the place you have chosen to live is not the same as speaking the non-local second language of a bf/gf you happen to have hooked up with

We get back to the philosophical question of whether 8 years counts as "hooked up" or not then ...

Well, it's not just the length of time, is it? It's also "non-local" and "second language", which are very important. After 3 years my bf is not showing any signs of wanting to learn my language, as he did not set out to be with someone who also speaks another language. He chose a person who speaks his language, in his country, with no plans that we would end up marrying one day.

Learning a foreign language as an adult is much harder.

Depends to what standard ... there's "I can make out enough words to know that this news story is not very happy about this part of the world" - certainly enough to get a jist - right the way up to giving a TED talk.

After what period of time should my bf start learning my language, theoretically? And is that the equivalent of a proposal?

Learning a foreign language as an adult is much harder.

Yeah but she doesn't need to be fully multilingual, just about to get the gist. And FFS it's a great opportunity to learn a new language!

I'm wondering if something else is at the root of this ... perhaps she feels excluded or insecure generally and is viewing the language issue as just another instance of this?

After what period of time should my bf start learning my language, theoretically?

Shrug

Dunno. How much Spanish would someone pick up in a weeks holiday if they wanted ?

Depends to what standard ... there's "I can make out enough words to know that this news story is not very happy about this part of the world" - certainly enough to get a jist - right the way up to giving a TED talk.

Both are a lot harder to do as adults. DH learned English very easily at the age of about 5. He isn't any better at learning languages now than I am as it is much much harder for adults.

Yeah but she doesn't need to be fully multilingual, just about to get the gist. And FFS it's a great opportunity to learn a new language!

I disagree.

Dunno. How much Spanish would someone pick up in a weeks holiday if they wanted ?

It would depend on how good they are at learning languages. Most people would probably pick up very little.

You've lost me there Rosetti! No idea what that has to do with this discussion :)

It would depend on how good they are at learning languages. Most people would probably pick up very little.

Even a word a day gives you 7 at the end of the week. Or 365 in a year. Or 800 in 8 years if you are taking it very easy.

800 words is enough to follow a very rough conversation to the extent of not feeling excluded. Yes, grammar and syntax might be all over the place.

Even a word a day gives you 7 at the end of the week. Or 365 in a year. Or 800 in 8 years if you are taking it very easy.

But you wouldn't remember each word unless you kept going over them so not really that slow.

800 words is enough to follow a very rough conversation to the extent of not feeling excluded. Yes, grammar and syntax might be all over the place.

I couldn't follow a conversation in French despite probably having learned a lot more than 800 french words whilst at school.

After 3 years my bf is not showing any signs of wanting to learn my language, as he did not set out to be with someone who also speaks another language.

He may not have deliberately gone out to choose someone who speaks another language, but he's ended up with one. And it makes sense to try to meet a partner on their own ground some of the time and learn about their language and culture. Isn't it just normal and base level to want to be able to share important things with your partner? If you can't be arsed at all and you're not really interested, then it's all one way.