AIBU - partner wants me to stop speaking Italian with my mum

[countrywalks1]

AIBU? Me and my partner have been staying at my mum's flat because of covid issues. She told me after 2 days here that she feels it's rude that I speak Italian with mum in front of her as she doesn't know what's going on and doesn't understand the language. I replied saying I understand it must be frustrating not to know, especially as she's the kind of person who likes to know everything, and the pandemic is really tough on her as she's homesick and hasn't been home properly for months, so I can understand why as she says she feels excluded.

However, my counterpoint was that I usually (about 60%) talk with mum in Italian. Culturally, I would say I'm half British and half Italian - I've mostly grown up in the UK but was born and most of my extended family are and live in Italy. I speak Italian fluently, but if I don't speak it regularly it gets a bit worse as I get out of practice with tenses and conjugations etc.

So I speak Italian with my mum because: 1) for me it's the language we've always communicated; 2) it makes me feel more connected with my Italian culture; 3) it pleases me to practice it; 4) I'm pretty sure my mum prefers talking to me in Italian than in English as she doesn't really get to speak it with anyone after my granddad (her dad) passed away a few years ago as did my very bilingually fluent brother. It's complicated I know!!!!

So told this to my partner, she says she appreciates the reasoning but still unnecessary to speak it when she's there as it feels she's excluded. I told her I understand why but I struggle to understand why she couldn't move past it as I've been in the same situation with friends speaking a language I don't understand where I just talk English when I can, or ask what's going on. The other thing is that usually my mum will save talking to me in Italian for mum things like telling me off or telling me to do something. I emphasised that we're never using it to talk about her or be nasty, and we kind of slip into it naturally.

Still she says she feels excluded, which at this point I understand. She was also in my opinion a bit nasty and in anger said we moved over here to the UK and chose to stay so we shouldn't really be talking Italian anymore anyway, we should be British. This I put down to anger that I wasn't understanding her point of view. In her defence she did also say I could speak it if I taught her Italian, although I struggle that the emphasis is on me to teach her when we have been together for 8 years and even gone over to visit my Italian relatives in Italy and been to weddings etc - without ever having tried to learn. Albeit we've been doing vocational education together throughout this time so many other important things to learn.

So last night I worked really hard to make sure I spoke only in English with everyone, so when mum asked me something in Italian I actively made sure to reply in English.

I just need to know AIBU in feeling disappointed? I understand my partner's frustration, and I can try to cut down on the Italian for a little while because of the circumstances - it's tough being homesick and then not even being able to understand the conversation where you are. It's just the request that I cut down on speaking Italian with my mum when she's also there - as I told her, I expect that I will always see mum with her (we're planning on getting married). I also feel that she's asking me to hide away (in the context of communicating with mum) a little part of my own culture. Therefore, AIBU to not let this lie?

*partner (not fiancée)

I think you should speak a common language while you're all together, as it's rude to exclude one person. But your partner should make the effort to start learning Italian asap. No excuse not to at the moment.

It’s a tough one .
To feel excluding in your home (and it is hers atm ) must be awful .
If it’s just you and your mum and she is in another room I don’t see the issue but if you’re all sat together then yes it is rude and I don’t blame her feeling that way .
Think a bit of give and take from all of you is needed

I think that she should make the effort to learn Italian in the long term. However, right now the three of you are in lockdown together, and I know I would find it hard being in a room with two other people chatting in a language I didn’t understand.

It IS incredibly isolating to be sat in a room with a conversation going around in a language you are not fluent in.

You have every right to speak to your mother in whichever language you want to.

Can you compromise? Meal time conversation in a communal language. Chatting about how Great Uncle Giuseppe set up the family business in Italian.

It's rude to speak Italian in front of your partner if she doesn't understand it and you and your mum can communicate in English. Speak Italian when your partner's not there, English when she is, or at the very least you need to keep translating everything you say as you go along.
I am from a family where two languanges are spoken, everyone speaks English as well, I understand both but not everyone does, those who don't understand are immediately excluded when people start speaking the other language. It's a mean thing to do especially around the dinner table. Perhaps excusable if you and your mum are washing up and partner is reading in the same room or something like that.

Oops.

I grew up in a bilingual home. My grandmother didn’t speak English, my father speaks only English. I always spoke my mother’s native tongue to her, unless others were present. It’s just common courtesy to speak a language all understand if one can.

My husband is multilingual, and we share 3 common languages, and will always default to the language everyone understands.

If and when you have children, certainly speak to them in Italian. But in these circumstances, I think you’re being rude.

Normally I would see two people conversing in a language the third person in the room doesn't understand as rude and to be avoided.

But I also see a guest in someone's home demanding that the owner speak in not-their-first-language as rude.

And due to lockdown, I imagine the opportunities to speak Italian with your mother without your partner also being in the room are few and far between.

I wonder if your partner's anger stems from the fact that she knows she's had eight years to at least learn a smattering of Italian; and that she hasn't taken the opportunity is now biting her in the bum.

Have you ever talked about speaking Italian/English in the context of children? Is she assuming that her children will not speak Italian?

You’re being a bit rude but she’s been shocking saying this:

She was also in my opinion a bit nasty and in anger said we moved over here to the UK and chose to stay so we shouldn't really be talking Italian anymore anyway, we should be British.

You usually think of your guests needs first, rather than expecting them to 'wind their necks in'.

I get where she is coming from. You could spend the whole evening talking to your mum in Italian and she wouldn’t have a clue what you are talking about and will feel isolated and excluded. Surely it’s only polite when she is there that you all speak English

Talk to your mum in Italian when your partner is not around

Suggest that your partner takes formal Italian lessons although she may not pick a language up very easily, so be prepared for that

It’s beyond rude to speak in your own language in front of someone who doesn’t understand it - if you can speak their language as well.

That’s just basic manners. I have lots of bilingual friends and there are plenty at my children’s school as well. They always speak English in company and only use their other language when they are at home with their family (if all speaking common language) or alone with their child etc. I have two mum friends who are French. I occasionally hear them speaking French to each other but if I join them they revert to English straight away.

You need to save Italian for when you and your mum are alone together.

I think it's hard - I think that I can see why she feels excluded, and it would be kind, if you're all in the same room, to make an effort to speak English so she can join in.

I think back to an ex-boyfriend who was Welsh. Day to day when he was on the phone to his brothers/parents speaking Welsh I didn't think twice about it, but when we went to their house for Christmas, I did feel very lonely, and it did seem rude to solely speak Welsh all the time, excluding me from all conversation for days.

Which is even weirder, because I've spent evenings in the company of people with no shared language, and had a riot, worked in offices of people speaking other languages and not had an issue (although in meetings they were polite enough to switch to English unless having a quick side conversation, which obviously helps) - so perhaps it's less the language, and more the atmosphere that's the problem here (and at that welsh cottage 20 years ago)

YANBU. If you are having a conversation that she might want to join in with, then it's reasonable to talk in English (although, after so long together, it's also reasonable to expect that she would have bothered to learn some Italian by now). If you're just talking to your Mum, and it's not a conversation which concerns her, then speak in whatever language you want.

Her comment about you should be British by now is bang out of order. That's an awful thing to say and shows no understanding at all of people who have more than one cultural heritage.

We have a similar situation at work (thankfully I don't have to live with it full time) where everyone is bilingual (in the same two languages) except one employee who only speaks English, only many of the newer people have just moved to England and are much more comfortable in the other language. So often we speak in a mixture of the two languages, or exclusively in the other one. And even when it has nothing to do with this English-speaking colleague, she gets really annoyed if she's within earshot. And she has expressed the idea that you're in England now, you should be speaking English. I do my best to accommodate her by moving further away so she can hear less, but I'm absolutely not about to stop speaking another language (which, as you say, will get rusty if I don't practise, since I'm not living in the country), which everyone involved in the conversation is more fluent in, for the sake of someone down the corridor who suspects that she's being spoken about.

It is considered to be rude speaking foreign language in front of people who don't understand it. I'm bilingual and always try to translate immediately when I have to speak another language. When we have children however we'll be using one parent one language method, but I hope DH will learn a bit more and generally he doesn't mind. Can you continue speak to your mum in Italian and translate the conversation to your OH, making sure you give time for a reply? If your mum understands English it will be even easier. Also try using mix of both languages. This generally works for us when my folks are around.

It’s beyond rude to chatter away in another language to someone if the third someone doesn’t understand it.

Putting it all together I think your partner is not just being unreasonable but also controlling.

You are allowed to have private conversations with your mother. If the conversation involves all 3 of you it needs to be English as that's your shared language. If your talking to your Mother only then Italian is fine.

YANBU. I can't stand this attitude to languages, which is unfortunately very common in the UK. This paranoia that anyone speaking a language in front of you that you don't understand is doing so to exclude or to talk about you behind your back. It's pathetic and insular.

Someone's language is an important part of their culture. It's not fair to deny them the opportunity to speak it, especially to their own family members! English speakers are spoilt by the fact that our language is everywhere. It is perfectly fine to speak Italian to your DM as long as you're also speaking plenty of English to your partner!

Unless you're all in the same room 24/7 they're must be plenty of opportunities for you and your mum too chat in Italian when you're partner's not there?

I think it's really ride to exclude someone from the conversation like that.

But you're obviously wanting us all to agree with your point of view, saying you want to practise or you'll forget the language and your partner saying you shouldn't be speaking Italian now you live in Britain. You seem to be almost implying they're racist, which begs the question, why do you want to be with them at all?

She is being ridiculous.

She sounds awful. Why has she been too lazy to learn Italian? Bin her.

She sounds like a dick

She was also in my opinion a bit nasty and in anger said we moved over here to the UK and chose to stay so we shouldn't really be talking Italian anymore anyway, we should be British. This I put down to anger that I wasn't understanding her point of view.
No, I'd put it down to plain ol' xenophobia. Not pleasant.

In her defence she did also say I could speak it if I taught her Italian
Or she could figure it out herself instead of making it your problem.

I speak Urdu, English and BSL in that order.
My son speaks Urdu, English and BSL in that order
My boyfriend speaks Swedish and English in that order.

I almost exclusively speak to my son in Urdu or BSL, he is similar with me. That hasn’t changed because my boyfriend is here, when I do speak to my son in English he usually replies in Urdu.

Is your partner learning Italian? I’ve been doing daily Urdu lessons with my boyfriend and he has been doing Swedish ones with me. It’s a great time to improve language skills.

I think no Italian at the dinner table or if all three are having a conversation but if you are doing something with your mum like making dinner then chat away in Italian.