AIBU - partner wants me to stop speaking Italian with my mum

[countrywalks1]

AIBU? Me and my partner have been staying at my mum's flat because of covid issues. She told me after 2 days here that she feels it's rude that I speak Italian with mum in front of her as she doesn't know what's going on and doesn't understand the language. I replied saying I understand it must be frustrating not to know, especially as she's the kind of person who likes to know everything, and the pandemic is really tough on her as she's homesick and hasn't been home properly for months, so I can understand why as she says she feels excluded.

However, my counterpoint was that I usually (about 60%) talk with mum in Italian. Culturally, I would say I'm half British and half Italian - I've mostly grown up in the UK but was born and most of my extended family are and live in Italy. I speak Italian fluently, but if I don't speak it regularly it gets a bit worse as I get out of practice with tenses and conjugations etc.

So I speak Italian with my mum because: 1) for me it's the language we've always communicated; 2) it makes me feel more connected with my Italian culture; 3) it pleases me to practice it; 4) I'm pretty sure my mum prefers talking to me in Italian than in English as she doesn't really get to speak it with anyone after my granddad (her dad) passed away a few years ago as did my very bilingually fluent brother. It's complicated I know!!!!

So told this to my partner, she says she appreciates the reasoning but still unnecessary to speak it when she's there as it feels she's excluded. I told her I understand why but I struggle to understand why she couldn't move past it as I've been in the same situation with friends speaking a language I don't understand where I just talk English when I can, or ask what's going on. The other thing is that usually my mum will save talking to me in Italian for mum things like telling me off or telling me to do something. I emphasised that we're never using it to talk about her or be nasty, and we kind of slip into it naturally.

Still she says she feels excluded, which at this point I understand. She was also in my opinion a bit nasty and in anger said we moved over here to the UK and chose to stay so we shouldn't really be talking Italian anymore anyway, we should be British. This I put down to anger that I wasn't understanding her point of view. In her defence she did also say I could speak it if I taught her Italian, although I struggle that the emphasis is on me to teach her when we have been together for 8 years and even gone over to visit my Italian relatives in Italy and been to weddings etc - without ever having tried to learn. Albeit we've been doing vocational education together throughout this time so many other important things to learn.

So last night I worked really hard to make sure I spoke only in English with everyone, so when mum asked me something in Italian I actively made sure to reply in English.

I just need to know AIBU in feeling disappointed? I understand my partner's frustration, and I can try to cut down on the Italian for a little while because of the circumstances - it's tough being homesick and then not even being able to understand the conversation where you are. It's just the request that I cut down on speaking Italian with my mum when she's also there - as I told her, I expect that I will always see mum with her (we're planning on getting married). I also feel that she's asking me to hide away (in the context of communicating with mum) a little part of my own culture. Therefore, AIBU to not let this lie?

@lyralalala I tried German as well and that one obsesses over Man, Woman, Boy and Girl😂

I have always been told that people should not communicate between each other in a language not spoken by other members of the group present. It isn't polite. Of course if there is no common language that's different but in your case there is.

I doubt it, Omg - well, not through Duolingo alone. It's ok for the very beginner stage, but that's about it. I'm an MFL teacher and used it when I first started learning a new language a couple of years ago but it doesn't explain grammar or teach you to say or understand anything longer than one sentence at a time (about some pretty random things!). I very quickly needed to move onto other resources.

Personally I think it's rude as hell to purposely exclude one person out of a conversation like that. I agree with a PP that when it's just you and your mum you speak Italian, when it's all 3 of you, you all speak English.

Regardless of whether she wants to learn the language or not, she doesn't know it and you know that....

The thing is, if the OP, the mum and the partner were all sitting at the table together eating or something, then yes it would be rude not to speak the language that everyone at the table speaks. Or if they are all having a conversation together.

But what's unreasonable is to say that the OP shouldn't speak Italian to her mother in the partner's presence generally, when the OP is addressing her mother only. It's perfectly possible (and natural for a bilingual person) to switch from one language to the other as you talk to different people in the house/office. I've worked in many MFL departments. Staff were constantly speaking to each other in languages that not all the others understood. Nobody was being rude or excluding anyone. They were enjoying communicating with others of a common language, and switched as soon as they addressed someone else.

In bilingual households this must happen all the time too - where the parent from another country speaks their native language to the children even if the other parent doesn't speak that language.

I've worked in many MFL departments. Staff were constantly speaking to each other in languages that not all the others understood. Nobody was being rude or excluding anyone.
In that environment, everyone is going to be internationally minded, used to other languages being spoken and used to the idea that someone speaking an unknown language does not equate to someone secretly talking about you without your knowledge. They're mostly going to be pretty well educated, and anyone who does feel uncomfortable at first will soon see that everyone else accepts that environment, and will acclimatise.

Compare that, with, say, my inlaws, who grew up in a monolingual setting, very rarely hearing another language even on the street or on TV. Of course I couldn't automatically expect them to have that international mindset, and just accept me blathering away in another language with their son. They were intelligent but not open to new ideas, and it was very much "Not in our presence!"
In my son's kindergarten, one of the carers even asked me not to speak English with my son when I picked him up as (she told me openly) she thought we were talking about her. She was poorly educated and also just awful in many ways! Telling her about the lovely international culture in MFL departments would not have changed her mind. (I gave her some reading matter in her language but I doubt she even read it.)

It's all about context, and how the third person feels. Sometimes you do have to accommodate.

For the early-stage language learners, I'd recommend the Collins/Paul Noble audiobooks.

In bilingual households this must happen all the time too - where the parent from another country speaks their native language to the children even if the other parent doesn't speak that language.

It's not the same though. I don't mind DH speaking to the children in his language as it has meant they are bilingual and I can mostly understand what they are saying anyway. A conversation between adults is much harder to understand, they are already bilingual so it serves no purpose and just unnecessarily excludes me.

Every household has a different dynamic. We, as I said, don't speak each other's languages (both feature in the most difficult languages to learn) so we use common one. In our case English (neither is native English speaker). When we have guests, we use common language, English, unless the guest can't speak it. If we all sit together we then do the live action interpreting thing when we translate everything as we go. Essentially end up saying things twice. It can lead to some funny situations. I had to few times google translate from English to my native language 😂

I would feel really bad if someone was excluded. When my mum is visiting, I chat to her in our language, but as soon as DH comes in, I switch and either repeat or talk slower in English and translate what she isn't sure about.

Not learning your partner's language doesn't mean you don't love them or don't respect their culture. The comment about British was mean, but people say the darnest things when they are frustrated. Only OP knows how bad it is or if she should just forget it.

Why would your DP learn Italian when you and your DM both speak English? You're being very rude excluding her unnecessarily.

Well I guess you’ll let it lie but your partner is racist and or bigoted. I wouldn’t want kids with her.

therona

Why would your DP learn Italian when you and your DM both speak English? You're being very rude excluding her unnecessarily

My husband and I are from diff Indian states with diff languages. There are 2 common languages that we speak and when at home, we stick to either of the 2. When either of our family members are with us, I speak the common language with his family and he does the same with mine. So we are all being respectful to each other. But if he speaks to his family, or I speak to mine, noone expects to be speaking a common language. You have grown up speaking a language and are comfortable with it. There is a reason we call it the 'mother tongue' in India. It's quite unfair expecting you to not speak Italian when your Mum speaks it inherently. I get that she might feel left out, but that's where the balance of respect and comfort comes in. Translate to her if she doesn't understand it, speak in English once in a while, include her in conversations with a mix of both languages, teach her a few words and sentences. How would your mum and she communicate if you were not around anyways? There always is a middle ground..

Are there just the three of you in lockdown? So just the three of you together all the time. That is a lot different to other people's experiences of boyfriends family talking in another language. When not in lockdown you would have other people to speak to and you would perhaps see family for short periods. You wouldn't be essentially trapped with 2 people for weeks on end who are speaking a different language to one that you can understand.

Abbccc Would you try to articulate your point slightly better, as I'm not sure what you meant by those two emojis?

Well, I have done in previous posts therona , but I will,quote Anurulz this time: "But if he speaks to his family, or I speak to mine, noone expects to be speaking a common language. You have grown up speaking a language and are comfortable with it. There is a reason we call it the 'mother tongue' in India. It's quite unfair expecting you to not speak Italian when your Mum speaks it inherently"

The OP's partner is not being excluded! It just so happens that the OP and their mum speak Italian to each other. As someone else explained earlier that is their heart language. It's not natural or easy to speak a different language to your own mother. But, anyway, the OP and their mother only speak Italian about half the time anyway! And they are living in the Italian mother's house, so it's not particularly respectful of the partner to ask that the OP's mother stops speaking her own language to her own child in her own home.

You're asking why the partner should learn to speak Italian. Well, they want to get marries to someone who speaks Italian to their family.....

Agree with your partner. It’s rude and isolating for her .

ravenmum you are absolutely right about multilingual and monolingual experiences. I guess I've been fighting against this suspicion of foreign languages all my career (except when I worked in a girls' independent school). I know it's down to upbringing and education (and living on an island that had a huge empire), but it's incredibly frustrating!

I've also, coincidentally, been studying the extinction of minority languages, which has made me feel even more strongly about people being forced not to speak their native language, or it being systematically repressed. I know that sounds a bit dramatic in the context of the thread, but really - would you all be happy to be told not to speak to your mother in the language she brought you up in? I think native English speakers find that feeling hard to identify with, because English is almost always the dominant or common language. We can't imagine being told not to speak it, not least because so few English people are fluent enough to speak anything else!

Anyway, I'll bow out now - I'm straying into language nerd territory! Hope it gets sorted out, OP.

would you all be happy to be told not to speak to your mother in the language she brought you up in?

For couple of months while I am staying there with my partner? I wouldn't have a problem with it. Mainly because it's only when all of us would be together. When partner leaves the room, languages get switched. We do it every time someone visits if they speak English. It's only polite

We can't imagine being told not to speak it, not least because so few English people are fluent enough to speak anything else!

So many of them are not fluent in English either🙈
sorry

ravenmum you are absolutely right about multilingual and monolingual experiences. I guess I've been fighting against this suspicion of foreign languages all my career

All my life ....

*In general, the amount of exposure people have to English means this isn't a great comparison.

In Denmark, for example, lots of TV doesn't get dubbed so Danes grow up with hearing English very frequently, it makes a huge difference in learning a language.*

I can assure you this was not the case during my Swedish childhood in the 60s. There was far less on the telly, most of it was homegrown production and foreign languages were dubbed. We were still expected to learn not only English but at least one other foreign language too. I never met a German person growing up but I can still follow a conversation in German, because I put the work in. Or read a French novel. I was 17 the first time I met an actual genuine French person.

English people seem to think that foreigners only know English and that English is ubiquitous everywhere else. Not the case ime. When I was at uni, I wrote my dissertation in English, but my db wrote his in German and my best friend hers in French. The only rule was we had to write in a larger European language.

I wonder how many of the "she's had 8 years to learn" posters have actually successfully attempted to learn a foreign language to a conversational level without immersion.

There's loads of issues here....

If the mum is truly bilingual it is pretty rude to speak mostly on Italian in front of your non - Italian speaking gf... Esp if continual.

There is a complete difference between someone having a telephone chat in the background with their (Italian) pals/family for a short time (why should you NEED to understand a private conversation), and the odd, 'I'm unsure that the word is in English... It's when you xyz (in Italian): when said at the dinner table.

Havng been the person at the family gathering where even though speaking the language a bit... Could understand little as a dialectical form.... It is both lonely, boring and exhausting... And 7 bloody hours of it!

Also after 8 years your girlfriend really should have put in SOME effort to learn... (duolingo? Mondly? Classes?), which you could reinforce by helping her... My partner found it pretty useful for me to explain idiomatic English phrases and difference between different types of English.

Also she should make an effort to be interested in your Italian culture it's of your identity ... She has an excellent chance for full immersive experience with native Italian speakers in your family.

It does take A LOT of effort to get to the standard where you can fully participate in another language....

Most Europeans have a head start on learning English as it is so ubiquitous... As do many other nations due to our grim colonial past.

I'm largely tri lingual... But... It is incredibly effortful to concentrate and think in a language you're not fluent in when you're beginning ..... People who were bilingual from birth just don't understand the effort required!

Shove the duo lingo /mondly app under your gf nose and help her! I've been learning some Greek... After an hour I can recognise some basic greetings!