AIBU - partner wants me to stop speaking Italian with my mum

[countrywalks1]

AIBU? Me and my partner have been staying at my mum's flat because of covid issues. She told me after 2 days here that she feels it's rude that I speak Italian with mum in front of her as she doesn't know what's going on and doesn't understand the language. I replied saying I understand it must be frustrating not to know, especially as she's the kind of person who likes to know everything, and the pandemic is really tough on her as she's homesick and hasn't been home properly for months, so I can understand why as she says she feels excluded.

However, my counterpoint was that I usually (about 60%) talk with mum in Italian. Culturally, I would say I'm half British and half Italian - I've mostly grown up in the UK but was born and most of my extended family are and live in Italy. I speak Italian fluently, but if I don't speak it regularly it gets a bit worse as I get out of practice with tenses and conjugations etc.

So I speak Italian with my mum because: 1) for me it's the language we've always communicated; 2) it makes me feel more connected with my Italian culture; 3) it pleases me to practice it; 4) I'm pretty sure my mum prefers talking to me in Italian than in English as she doesn't really get to speak it with anyone after my granddad (her dad) passed away a few years ago as did my very bilingually fluent brother. It's complicated I know!!!!

So told this to my partner, she says she appreciates the reasoning but still unnecessary to speak it when she's there as it feels she's excluded. I told her I understand why but I struggle to understand why she couldn't move past it as I've been in the same situation with friends speaking a language I don't understand where I just talk English when I can, or ask what's going on. The other thing is that usually my mum will save talking to me in Italian for mum things like telling me off or telling me to do something. I emphasised that we're never using it to talk about her or be nasty, and we kind of slip into it naturally.

Still she says she feels excluded, which at this point I understand. She was also in my opinion a bit nasty and in anger said we moved over here to the UK and chose to stay so we shouldn't really be talking Italian anymore anyway, we should be British. This I put down to anger that I wasn't understanding her point of view. In her defence she did also say I could speak it if I taught her Italian, although I struggle that the emphasis is on me to teach her when we have been together for 8 years and even gone over to visit my Italian relatives in Italy and been to weddings etc - without ever having tried to learn. Albeit we've been doing vocational education together throughout this time so many other important things to learn.

So last night I worked really hard to make sure I spoke only in English with everyone, so when mum asked me something in Italian I actively made sure to reply in English.

I just need to know AIBU in feeling disappointed? I understand my partner's frustration, and I can try to cut down on the Italian for a little while because of the circumstances - it's tough being homesick and then not even being able to understand the conversation where you are. It's just the request that I cut down on speaking Italian with my mum when she's also there - as I told her, I expect that I will always see mum with her (we're planning on getting married). I also feel that she's asking me to hide away (in the context of communicating with mum) a little part of my own culture. Therefore, AIBU to not let this lie?

It’s rude to whisper. It’s rude to pass notes.

Yes. But speaking out loud in a language the GF has had 8 years to learn is t. It starts to become the responsibility of the GF to try at some point.

She has two options imo.

1. Learn the language
2. Suck it up

After 8 years she could be fluent. My OH hasn't learned my language either which I don't mind as he doesn't whinge when I use it with my family. If we have children then I will speak them my language and if he wants to join in he can learn. It is up to him to learn though but I would help if he asked. But it is not my responsibility to teach him just as it wasn't his for me to learn English.

My OH hasn't learned my language either which I don't mind as he doesn't whinge when I use it with my family.

Do your family members speak English? If they do, I hope you and your family members make the occasional effort to include your husband in your conversation. You come across as rather unkind for thinking that a person complaining that they are unable to join in with family conversation would be “whinging”. They are his family too.

I think it is a bit off having conversations in Italian when you can’t follow what’s being said, assuming that your partner’s mother can speak English well enough. It’s one thing if they’re in another room or you’re busy with something else such that you wouldn’t be contributing to the conversation, but if all three of you are there, then I think you’re being unnecessarily excluded and it’s a bit rude.

I live part of the year in another country and am bilingual so I completely agree that it’s great to encourage folk to learn languages. I also understand how you can become rusty if you’re not exposed to one of the languages. But I don’t think the way to address that is by excluding people...... you can read, listen to the radio or watch tv all quite easily and, in your partner’s case, speak with her mum when you’re not there.

Sorry, just realised that it’s the OP who speaks Italian and not her partner, but my point is the same.

She's had 8 years to learn even some basic language, but no, you're supposed to accept the bullshit monolingual way of small minded English speakers to save her the trouble of actually learning anything new. I've learned bits of languages simply because I was going on holiday to those places. I'd be mightily pissed off in your shoes.

What's the situation though? You have your entire dinner conversation in Italian while she's sitting there. Or you just say "can you grab me this" in Italian to your mum while the "main" conversation is in English? Huge difference.

Nooooooooo. If your partner wants to know what is being said, she should learn to understand Italian!
I speak a different language with my kids that my partner doesn't understand. He got frustrated sometimes not being able to understand. I am now teaching him my language and he practices on duo lingo. He is much happier now.

Your partner should make more Effort to understand your language and culture. After 8 years???? Wow. She could have been fluent by now. At least in understanding the language.
So no. Its her that needs to change. Not you

In your partner's position I would time and energy into learning Italian tbh. Your partner probably doesn't need excellent grammar, or even to be totally fluent to understand a conversation, or to make herself understood.

Refusing to learn the language of your partner, to me, is short sighted and insular. In my view it is unreasonable to marry a foreign national and not make an effort to learn the language and culture.
Italian is such a beautiful language anyway.
You are not unreasonable at all.

So if your Mum missed speaking Italian after her Dad died, she lives here and generally speaks English? And you both speak Italian to keep up your fluency?

Have an ‘Italian Hour’ every day and use English the rest.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirty_Hungarian_Phrasebook

I think you’re both being unreasonable if I’m honest.
She’s being unreasonable in expecting you to never speak Italian while she is around but you’re being unreasonable in only speaking Italian.
Can you and your mother make an effort to also speak English so she doesn’t feel excluded, if it’s only the three of you this could very quickly make her feel very lonely. But could she also learn some Italian? You and your mother could teach her!

@ArgumentativeAardvaark some do and some don't. Of course the ones who do speak to him in English and I translate for those who don't speak English and for my partner. But no not every conversation will involve him and I want to talk to my family and friends in my language when I see them which isn't very often and he respects it and sees no problem with it. Most of the time I go back home alone anyways as both of us want me to be able to see my friends and family without having to worry about him. When they visit us it depends on the person how much english is involved.

If he thought me and my family/friends unkind I am sure he would have said something in 9 years or decided to learn the language. But instead he actively encourages me to use my own language with my friends and family. If he didn't I would be rather annoyed as I moved to the UK so he could carry on living here, speaking his language and focusing on the career he wanted.

If there are people together who speak multiple languages, with just one fluent language in common, politeness dictates that the language everyone understands should be used.
For me YABU. Your partner is BU to make the comment that being in Britain means you should speak English.

My DP and his siblings and friends are fluent speakers of another language that I don't speak and delight in speaking and making jokes to one another in that language, and laughing themselves silly. I tolerate it because they only see each other rarely and clearly are having so much fun, but I do find it rude.

To all those saying that the girlfriend is 'lazy' or unreasonable for not having learned Italian - it really isn't that easy to learn languages to the level of conversational fluency. I went to 2 hour Italian lessons every week for a year and emerged with a Level 1 certificate - that is pre-GCSE level

I'm amazed at all the people who think that learning a language to conversational level is so straightforward. I don't know anyone who has learnt a language as an adult to get to that level without living in a country where the language is spoken.

I've been with my husband for over a decade, I've picked up a lot of vocab and can understand bits here and there but I'm miles off being able to interject in Danish. I'm astonished people would consider this some sort of red flag or that his family shouldn't speak English to accommodate me.

I'm not bad at languages, I got a* for French and German at GCSE, I learned some Spanish at Saturday college but that's miles away from being able to hold conversations.

@solina it was not the speaking your native language that I suggested might be unkind; the approach of you and your family sounds fair enough. What struck me as unkind was to say that if your partner did make any comment about the balance of language in the family it would be “whinging”. That is a very patronising and infantilising way to describe something said by an adult.

I'm amazed at all the people who think that learning a language to conversational level is so straightforward. I don't know anyone who has learnt a language as an adult to get to that level without living in a country where the language is spoken

Me too. I did Standard Grade German, 3 years of German evening classes and a 10 week, 20h/week intensive course before I got my B2 German certificate. Even at that level I found it hard to hold my own in conversations (people talk about "conversational" foreign language level as if that was a low level - I think taking part in conversation is one of the hardest things you can do in a foreign language actually). You can work harder and get there faster, of course, but normal life also gets in the way. It's a big time investment if you haven't done it in school. The kids here in Germany start English aged 8, and the local high school is taught 50% in English. This isn't in some expat enclave either, this is just a random town. To find that sort of time once you're out of full time education is a big ask.

Agree with @Viletta and @AprilJune. It’s rude to carry in a conversation in front of someone who doesn’t speak the language. In a lock down situation things are not the norm, anxiety runs high so cut her some slack and also show some caring and respect to your partner.

To meet your own needs on speaking Italian, why not then agree a dedicated half hour Or hour a day to talk to your mother in Italian. This way it’s part if the norm and not throughout the day excluding your partner.

@ArgumentativeAardvaark Well I didn't say if he made any comment, I said if he whinged about it. Which is what I think the OP partner is doing imo. But luckily we can have opinions, you can think me unkind and I can think she is whinging.

And yes to those saying languages are hard to learn, they can be. But a lot of other people living in a non english speaking country learn english to pretty fluent standard even if they never even visit an english speaking country. So I think 8 years is plenty for learning Italian which is not particurlarly difficult language. You can watch Italian tv, read Italian books etc if you wanted to immerse yourself a little more. Plus she could have had a short conversation with the OP every day to practice. She hasn't even tried.

conversational language is one of the hardest things. Its so different when people speak in their native accent, fast, compared to people in a language class speaking slowly, on simple topics with a british accent!

Also I understand OP wanting to speak Italian to his mum. I would find it super awkward to speak English to my mum. I think translating right away is a very common and nice thing to do.

We have 3+ languages between us. If everyone in the room can speak 1 common language it is used, otherwise it's rude.
We do have family members who can't speak the common language so there it's obviously a different situation.

And I think that the people going on about how OP should drop DP because she isn't learning Italian... We haven't learned each other's languages too. We know some words, but use common one. It's nice to learn it if you can, but it doesn't spell end of relationship if you won't 🤷🏻

But a lot of other people living in a non english speaking country learn english to pretty fluent standard even if they never even visit an english speaking country.

In general, the amount of exposure people have to English means this isn't a great comparison.

In Denmark, for example, lots of TV doesn't get dubbed so Danes grow up with hearing English very frequently, it makes a huge difference in learning a language.

@IllegalFred Hence why I said she could watch Italian tv or read books/magazines to practice. I read English books to practice when I was younger. And I didn't understand everything but got the main plot. If you want to learn a language you really can in 8 years.

2/3 of the people on the house speak Italian, the other 1/3 could join in if she hadn’t chosen to exclude herself by not learning Italian in the near decade she has been in a relationship with an Italian speaker.

Op and their mother should continue to speak Italian, op’s dp should start learning Italian (and apologise for her xenophobic views).