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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Honest Advice please

523 replies

emz771 · 08/05/2020 17:53

I have read MN for years - but never joined. I think sometimes it's good to get some third party advice so please help ladies.

Ok so just over 3 years ago my sister split with her husband. He wasn't very good with money and as such she didn't come out with anything. My husband is in property and said she could live in a property we have. We said (and the wording is important) it's yours rent free for as long as you need it.

Anyway about 18 months ago my sister met a man who is a really nice guy. He is great with her kids, is good company, and we often have a pub lunch with the kids or a dog walk on a Sunday and he treats her and the kids really well.

However about 8 months ago he moved in with my sister and my husband presumed that when he moved in we would get some offer of rent. To put into context he is an engineer for BT and does quite a bit of overtime and we understand he is on about 45k a year. My sister works part time as a secretary and earns about 16k a year. So they are a 60K household with no rent/mortgage.

Now it's been griping at my husband for some time - and yesterday he actually got really annoyed. This is going to sound silly but because he is still working my husband asked him to pick up some steaks from a farm shop he passes and leave on our door step. He did - but then my sister messaged me that night and said the steaks were £32. My husband who is a calm man lost it - and claimed he lives in our property that we could rent for £1500 a month and can't shout us a few steaks.

Now I need to say my sister is my best friend in the entire world - and it's not the money with my husband but the fact he feels this guy is taking the mick. The house would rent for £1500 - but I know my husband would let them have it for £800.

Now is it our fault with the wording "have it as long as you want" even though that was when she was a single parent living on a part time wage.I don't want it to affect my relationship with my husband.

Let me know - am I being a cow?

OP posts:
Hidingtonothing · 08/05/2020 22:12

This is entirely on your DS imo, she moved someone into the house you were letting her live in rent free and didn't think to speak to you about the change in circumstances?!! Shock

Original poster
emz771 · 08/05/2020 22:13

I know I’m probably portraying myself and my husband has a couple of buffoons here - but I don’t want a tenancy agreement.

My husband is a self made property man and I’m a solicitor with 19 years experience specialising in property, contract and civil disputes. This is our bread and butter something we do all day every day.

I know how things should be done - but no matter if you think I’m a fool or not - family is different.

OP posts:
Oxfordnono12 · 08/05/2020 22:15

They're taking the mick out of your husband. You need to speak with your sister.

Doingtheboxerbeat · 08/05/2020 22:15

Oh god op, this sounds like an awkward family dynamic that is so ingrained and normal to you and your family but is so weird outside of it.
I'm one of those people who when given a lift by someone(I never ask, they offer), even a couple of miles, I still offer petrol money. Some people are just entitled Aholes.

Izzabellasasperella · 08/05/2020 22:19

I'm not sure why you don't want a tenancy agreement though. Especially as your husband is in property. We live in a house owned by my Mum and we have one. I think it would be easier and you would all know where you stand.

CalmdownJanet · 08/05/2020 22:19

"Family is different" Hmm pity she didn't feel the same way

Don't get me wrong op you sound lovely and so does your dh, really genuine generous people and I see you don't want to see your sister as a piss taker but unfortunately she is, whether she realises it or not so a tenancy agreement would be best in place and doing it now saves any awkwardness down the line.

harriethoyle · 08/05/2020 22:23

If you're a property solicitor, you'll know the case of Cox v Jones and how VERY quickly relationships can sour. Don't be a mug and think your family's immune to similar CFery. It's not.

BackseatCookers · 08/05/2020 22:27

I don't think it's fair at all on your husband for you to unilaterally decided you don't want a tenancy agreement in place when your sister has so far lived for free (as has her partner) and will now be continuing to do so at way below market rate.

Show your husband you appreciate his kindness by putting a tenancy agreement in place to show you are taking this seriously and to show that your sister isn't a pisstaker.

There is absolutely no reason for her to not want to sign something if she isn't taking the piss, is there?

Original poster
emz771 · 08/05/2020 22:27

I’ve seen it all - I’m not saying I’m immune.

OP posts:
BemidjiMinnesota · 08/05/2020 22:28

Having a tenancy agreement might make it easier to get your Dsis' freeloading boyfriend out of the house if/when they break up. Just put her name on it, not his. It would be for all your protection.

butterry · 08/05/2020 22:28

It's really rude that they asked for the steak money. Have they offered anything previously in the way of gratitude for the free rent? I would be so upset as your husband.

If someone does you a favour, especially an ongoing one where you are saving so much money, it would be expected from a decent person that they would have the manners to display some gratitude. £32 is nothing in the face of what they have saved!

It's the lack of appreciation and feeling entitled to continue taking advantage of your generous rent free offer that is causing the problem. The situation has changed and obviously now they have the means to pay and rightly so they should have brought it up and offered some rent. The fact they haven't is pretty disgraceful, family or not.

If you want to stick by your original 'for as long as you need it' you may as well sign the property over to her, as she will always 'need' it - being such a bargain and not having to pay a penny!

BackseatCookers · 08/05/2020 22:30

If there isn't an agreement in place and she splits with him in a year, what happens legally if he doesn't want to leave but can show he has been contributing to rent for just as long as she has (assuming they start doing so)?

Surely with no tenancy agreement in place she is less protected in that situation? Genuine question as it would be a concern for me with a guy who has such a brass neck as to move in, not suggest paying rent and then charge for the steaks.

BackseatCookers · 08/05/2020 22:31

@BemidjiMinnesota put it way better than I just did:

Having a tenancy agreement might make it easier to get your Dsis' freeloading boyfriend out of the house if/when they break up. Just put her name on it, not his. It would be for all your protection.

Original poster
emz771 · 08/05/2020 22:35

He would leave if we wanted him to. I’m sure of that.

OP posts:
LuminousAmber · 08/05/2020 22:37

She should definitely start paying rent op. And I totally get your husbands reaction to the steaks!

I would have the discussion about rent. And you’d be entirely reasonable to ask for it from June or July. She’s been taking the piss for a long time now.

However. In the name of being ultra-ultra reasonable and maintaining family relations (and considering you don’t need it) i’d consider giving more notice. In your position I think I’d have a chat and say we’ll need rent from August.

She has three months to ‘plan’. There’s no possible comeback of ‘oh my god, I have the car insurance/this bill/xyz i need to pay and i’d banked on this money’ because 3 months is a massive amount of time left, rent-free. And if you’ve had nothing for 18 months, 3 more is hardly going to make a difference.

If it goes south - which it might - no one in a month of Sunday’s could say you were being unfair by giving 3 months notice to the change of ‘agreement’.

Embracelife · 08/05/2020 22:43

You didn t ask for rent for three years.! So you clearly dont need the rent money

So you need to give some reasonable notice if you now losing out

Original poster
emz771 · 08/05/2020 22:45

If it was up to me I wouldn’t ever ask for it - my hubby just feels like he is being taken the Mick out of.

OP posts:
Figgygal · 08/05/2020 22:50

You are both being taken advantage of op
You are £800-1500 out of pocket every month you’re mad!!

Itwasntme1 · 08/05/2020 22:53

I think you need to ask for it, not just because your husband wants it.

I love my sister and would do anything for her. However, there is something very off about a grown up, on a good salary, who is content to live rent free in a home owned by his girl friends sister. He must realise he getting a huge break here, his outgoings have gone down dramatically.

What sort of person does this, without thinking my god I should be paying my way here? It is a major red flag about this guy. He is cheap. Hopefully he still wants to be in the relationship when he is paying his way.

LuminousAmber · 08/05/2020 22:54

You’re totally entitled to ask for rent but I do think your financial position is relevant to how much bad feeling there will be.

If you’re well off but on a reasonably ‘normal’ income (ie you don’t need it but £1k is still a decent amount of money to you)...well that’s different to if your net worth is £40 million, with an income of £500k a year and it would be a drop in the ocean to you (but a big chunk to your sister).

You’re JUST as entitled either way...but it will make a difference to how your sister/mum feel. And if your situation is actually more like the second version I’d think you and dh are being a bit tight fisted.

BackseatCookers · 08/05/2020 22:56

If it was up to me I wouldn’t ever ask for it - my hubby just feels like he is being taken the Mick out of.

It's a team decision though isn't it and you've had it your way (not wanting to ask her for money) for a long time now which is lovely of you to do but your husband has every right as an equal member of your team to say that it isn't working for him anymore because he feels taken advantage of.

And while you say that you know he would leave if she asked him to, presumably you don't know him that well if you haven't been able to all have an open discussion (and him say a fucking massive thank you) regarding him living there rent free thus far!

Protect yourself, your husband and your sister by having an agreement in place. The person benefiting the most right now is her boyfriend...

Ilovecats14 · 08/05/2020 22:58

They are taking the mick big time.

Original poster
emz771 · 08/05/2020 22:58

I don’t really want to talk about money - but £1000 would make no difference to our lives and my mother and sister know that.

OP posts:
BurnIt · 08/05/2020 23:13

Its not the money though is it? Dinr think I'd have asked someone who was literally giving me a house for STEAK MONEY!!!

Pumpkintopf · 08/05/2020 23:13

Thing is, it's not really for your mum to dictate how you help out your sister, and with her live in boyfriend on the scene now they can afford the rent.

If you were so inclined, you could perhaps put the rent money to one side and give it to the kids to help them get through uni/buy their first car/for a deposit on a house - or could've perhaps stepped in to pay school fees although I guess that ship has sailed if they've already moved.

That way the money still benefits your family- as opposed to subsiding your sister's boyfriend.

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